Maths foundation paper GCSE

[Eyerollerhighroller]

Had parents eve last night (yr 8) and was told that this is the paper our DD will be sitting.

What does that mean in practice? It was an online appointment in which the teacher’s connection was poor so we ended up with 3 mins of a 5 min appointment and didn’t get chance to ask her!

Thank you!

It means she can get grades 1-5. I expect she was always behind at primary school and you are aware maths is something she has always found difficult. She is being taught a curriculum for students who need extra support and a slower pace of learning.

The maths foundation paper still has some quite challenging topics and questions on it, and is not just for those needing extra support. It's a perfectly valid choice for those who don't want to go on to maths and science and are unlikely to get grade 6 and above.

It is also suitable for those who need extra support and are aiming at lower grades, yes; much of the work covers topics that were initially covered by year 6, but the grade 4 and 5 questions are not to be dismissed.

I am surprised that the school would make the decision by mid Year-8, though. It doesn't have to be made until several years later, when exam entries go in, although in practice, many school do make the decision by the start of Year 10, as the classes tend to focus on different topics and go at different paces. Some schools do some cross-over sets, though, where they are taught work up to grade 6 or 7 level, and then make the decision on which tier nearer the time. Some schools that do a lot of setting do have lower sets in Year 8 and 9 that they might expect will then go on to Foundation sets in GCSE, but it's by no means a done-deal in most cases.

I do know of some pupils who have really found their feet in those years and have worked up to doing the Higher paper - sometimes they just needed the extra maturity, sometimes they needed to see a reason for working in maths and konwing they needed a grade 6 for their next course was the motivation; sometimes they needed a bit of tutoring or to get better at basics like timestables, etc.

The only reason I said she needs extra support is that this decision has been taken in Y8. If it was less clear cut the decision would be made later.

Thanks for the responses.

She was always at expected grade whenever we had reports/parents eve at primary school. From memory, she was involved in the odd intervention for a couple of weeks where a topic didn’t click. So as far as I’m aware, wasn’t ever really behind.

Thanks for the info. She has no ambitions in STEM unlike her older sister (different school - grammar so never a discussion about which paper to sit); but we fully encourage her to do her very best and she seems to really excel in English, Arts and Humanties, all of which she loves.

I’m glad to hear that with the foundation paper she can still get a “C” in old money as clearly that’s what she would need for whatever she decides to do.

Thank you or explaining it.

I'd be slightly concerned that the school is making this decision in Year 8. It says that your DD won't be given any opportunity to improve if she is able.

My DC's school don't make this decision fully until after mocks in Year 11, for comparison.

I agree, I'd be tempted to follow up in writing if you can - due to the poor connection - to check "I think I may have misunderstood" ...

As I understand it, there is a real cognitive shift around ? age 10-12 where children develop the capacity to reason around abstract ideas without needing to tie them to real examples. That has a big impact on the kind of mathematical problem solving they can handle.

I'd be pretty concerned about a child in this age group who's not always massively struggled with mathematics, being put in a foundation-only stream three years before their GCSEs. To be in a lower stream focussing on fundamental skills and concepts rather than teaching them stuff they are not ready for, fair enough. But the expectations of improvement and development also need to be there!

Weird idea - they couldn't have been saying that they assess year 8 using a GCSE foundation maths paper, could they??

Are you sure they said she will be taking the foundation paper? Or did they say she's likely to take the foundation paper?

Unless a student is very low ability, it would be pretty foolish to decide for certain which GCSE paper they would be taking in year 8 when they haven't even started the GCSE course. A lot could happen in the next 3 years. We have year 11s that are still swapping tiers for maths/science/languages even now and that's only 6 weeks before the exams start.

Thanks all. Food for thought.

She certainly said "would be taking". She also said she was solidly on course to "obtain all she would need access post 16 courses/apprenticeships/jobs". By that I assumed she meant if she carried on as she is now, she would be on track for 5 (in my understanding that is the pass needed).

I am going to send an email to confirm.

Can I ask those in the know- is it harder to get a C in the other paper/stream than the foundation paper? I'm guessing not but I can't fully understand it. Thank you!

Is she SEN? I think I'd only be expecting to hear that in year 8 if she was in a set being given extra support to ensure she had every possible chance of getting to the 4/5 boundary

The higher maths paper has harder questions only. It's harder for a weaker candidate to get a 4/5 on that paper. Hence it's only recommended for students who are expected to get a 6 or higher.

A 4 or 5 may be perfectly fine for your DD's aspirations. But it seems very early to limit her at this stage when presumably she is not really clear what she might want to do in the future anyway!

It seems very early to make that decision. I think at our school it was y11! I know for my own daughter target was 5 - but teacher didn’t confirm a choice until y11 for the higher paper (she got a 6)

The foundation paper you need more marks in to get the same grade as in higher. However the questions are easier.
It is roughly split into the first part foundation only and then the last part is 'crossover' so questions shared between foundation and higher.
The higher paper begins (after any multiple choice) with the last crossover part of the foundation paper.
So technically while you need more marks in the foundation, a hard working middle ability student may be better off doing the foundation paper. Whereas lazier students that won't try all the questions sometimes get put on higher (because they have to answer less to get the marks, but the questions they need to answer for those marks are harder).
In my opinion, it is better for a middle ability student to start off in foundation and do really well at those topics and then later on they can possibly be moved onto higher and just need to learn some additional maths, than if they started on higher and find it too difficult so got moved down to foundation. The latter would mean they have learnt unnecessary maths, as well as not spending as much time on the 'basics' and usually causes a loss in confidence.

All depends on what your child needs for the future though

Hello, I’m a secondary maths teacher so will offer some thoughts. We’d avoid talking about GCSE entry at this stage, as pupils can make a lot of progress, particularly with so much school missed with COVID, and we want pupils to work towards their best. However by the time they reach Year 9 we would want an honest conversation about the expected level of a pupil and, from experience as a teacher, where that suggested they would end up at GCSE.
For now, the best thing is that they work hard in lessons and make a list of topics that they are struggling with and revise these before the tests. If you wanted to do some regular extra practice of previous topics, you could use Corbet Maths 5 a day, looking at the Primary section (silver, progressing to gold and platinum if the earlier ones are too easy).