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Secondary education

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Original poster

Better to do options in Y8 or Y9?

75 replies

heytheremumhere · 22/03/2022 14:21

Do you think it is better to do GCSE options in Y8 or Y9? I'm interested to hear opinions. What are the pros and cons of doing them earlier/later. Thanks

OP posts:
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 23/03/2022 20:04

It's not necessarily about hating something - sometimes there are very good reasons for narrowing early.

I have a DD with severe dyslexia - she's giving up languages completely... to the relief of everyone involved. It was actually bad for her confidence to be forced to do something she struggled with to that extent (and I did two MFL to GCSE plus Latin and I'm bilingual in another language, so not against languages in the slightest).

It's also not great to teach classes with kids who would rather be doing other things. DD can't wait to start music next year in a class of kids who have actually chosen to be there.

We were 99.9% certain she would take GCSE drama - but has been massively put off by having to do group work over the last 2 years with kids who just won't take part, or are silly or who laugh at her because she'll have a go at anything. End result is that she's decided to stick with all her drama training being outside school in groups which require auditions and a cv to get a place in the class. Drama department aren't too happy as they'd banked on her doing it, but she doesn't want to risk getting as fed up on a GCSE as she has this year or ending up in a 'bad' group and it affecting her grade.

Not sure education programmes elsewhere are necessarily 'better' than the British ones.

TizerorFizz · 23/03/2022 20:22

I wasn’t really talking about SEN children. They always need special consideration. However I see “hatred” of subjects repeated all the time on these threads. My DDs did Drama and everyone took it seriously. No one got less than A* either. Schools and attitudes differ. No one was allowed to mess up the group work. However it really depends on how the school and SLT approach discipline and the quality of the school. The schools owe it to the DC to expect better behaviour.

TizerorFizz · 23/03/2022 20:36

I meant to add that spending 3 years on GCSEs leads to a big shock when it’s 2 years for A levels where the jump, academically, can be significant. Then all the pushing over 3 years to get a 7 at gcse can lead to huge disappointment at A level.

pointythings · 23/03/2022 20:37

@MerryMarigold

more time on things they were passionate about (science, History) and less time on things they hated (music, DT, ICT as it was then)

Don't you think it's great for them to spend some time on these even if they don't like them? One of my DC school doesn't have compulsory language GCSE meaning many children would only spend 2 years doing an MFL, which is not good. One of my DC doesn't like ICT, but I'm glad he has to do it as I think it develops skills he will need.

Many children (like mine) base their 'passion' for a subject on how good the teacher is and whether they like them or not! Especially subjects like History vs Geography or French vs Spanish. I think the extra year helps cement the likes and passions away from teachers and onto subjects.

No, I really didn't think it would have been great to make them carry on with music etc. My kids knew from an early age what they wanted and how they were going to get there. The skills involved in the subjects they chose were always going to be enough to open the doors for them. That's the point I was trying to make - whatever you do, it will be good for some and not for others. Another year of DT and music would have been a complete waste of time for my DDs - but that does not translate to all children.
Sirzy · 23/03/2022 20:40

Ds school did them at the end of year 8 but have now reverted to them being done at the end of year 9. It gives a year longer for them to figure things and experience different subjects.

Porcupineintherough · 24/03/2022 06:22

Needing 3 years to teach a 2 year course is not the sign of a good school.

HelloDulling · 24/03/2022 06:34

I’m so glad my 12 year old DS hasn’t been expected to chose his GCSE subjects yet. It’s too early to know if he’s good at certain subjects; particularly given that a term of Year 7 was spent at home, as well as two isolation periods last term.

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 07:05

I don’t see how we have moved to 12/13 year old children dictating what they will and will not study. Children might express preferences regarding what the like but this shouldn’t mean specialising so early. We have the same issues when DC study A levels and know very little about anything else. So just doing Maths, FM and Physics (for example) means a very narrow outlook on knowledge and life!

We are not world leaders in any form of education at school. We have huge numbers of DC now who do not have a broad education and parents think it’s ok for them to dictate what they will study. In Germany, a MFL is compulsory I believe. Our DC divest themselves of this imposition at 13. Not interested, so no effort, and parents agree.

I notice, now I’m older, how poor some intelligent young people are at being able to discuss anything outside their narrow school curriculum. Lack of wanting a broader education, and just learning for exams, appears to be to blame. If it’s not in the school curriculum, DC simply don’t know about it. As the curriculum narrows, it just gets worse.

MerryMarigold · 24/03/2022 08:25

@Porcupineintherough

Needing 3 years to teach a 2 year course is not the sign of a good school.
This!
AlwaysLatte · 24/03/2022 08:39

As the parent of a Y9 about to choose his Options, I would say 100% Y9. He's matured so much since Y8 and is really understanding the importance of his education now vs a year ago. Also our current Y7 is a late summer born and I can't imagine him being ready to choose his Options next year.

DoorLion · 24/03/2022 09:48

No, I really didn't think it would have been great to make them carry on with music etc. My kids knew from an early age what they wanted and how they were going to get there. The skills involved in the subjects they chose were always going to be enough to open the doors for them.

I knew from an early age what I wanted and how to get there . Dropping what I didn't like/ wasn't good at and concentrating on what I liked and was good at was a successful higher education/career strategy for me at the time. However, I don' t believe education is solely about "learning skills to fit us for success in a specific career". I think it should be about fitting us to be a citizen of the world, a member of society and giving us an insight into the huge and varied knowledge the human race has amassed.

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 11:54

@DoorLion
That’s very well articulated. It shouldn’t be a narrow Education to pass exams. It needs to be as broad as possible for as long as possible.

lljkk · 24/03/2022 12:14

The way DC choose GCSEs (end of yr8) they aren't narrowing the curriculum yet. hard to explain, the GCSEs just start filtering in at very end of yr8.

I studied 2 languages - I like languages & would enjoy learning another. But I can't see that DC being made to study languages has benefited DC at all. Wasted GCSE for them.

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 12:26

That’s the narrow outlook that has caused this country issues. It’s always good to study other cultures and try and understand each other via language and arts etc. plenty of us can say that studying X subject was of no benefit. No doubt for some people the list would be very long. It’s just the dumbing down and lack of appreciation of a broad education that doesn’t serve us well. Obviously GCSEs are not needed in every subject but a wider appreciation of the world beyond exams is utterly vital.

loopylindi · 24/03/2022 12:28

Just as a matter of interest, I was a DT teacher in a former life (I know. I know) and I was interested to see that most of the tasks in the Apprentise this year could have been design and make DT tasks in school (Clearly the contestants hadn't studied the subject!!)

MerryMarigold · 24/03/2022 13:14

@loopylindi

Just as a matter of interest, I was a DT teacher in a former life (I know. I know) and I was interested to see that most of the tasks in the Apprentise this year could have been design and make DT tasks in school (Clearly the contestants hadn't studied the subject!!)
My eldest is doing DT and his school is one of few who offer it at A level too. I think it's a fantastic subject to teach practical manipulation of objects/ tools as well as problem solving. Like food tech there is tons of life skills in it. People are always engineering that school is 'useless', well food tech, DT and ICT are all life skills which they should be doing for at least 3 years even if it's not their 'favourite' or a requirement for being a vet!
MerryMarigold · 24/03/2022 13:15

Engineering=complaining

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 14:03

We have noticed how poor the apprentice candidates seen this year in terms of all round ability. Even spelling eludes them.

pointythings · 24/03/2022 19:44

@DoorLion

No, I really didn't think it would have been great to make them carry on with music etc. My kids knew from an early age what they wanted and how they were going to get there. The skills involved in the subjects they chose were always going to be enough to open the doors for them.

I knew from an early age what I wanted and how to get there . Dropping what I didn't like/ wasn't good at and concentrating on what I liked and was good at was a successful higher education/career strategy for me at the time. However, I don' t believe education is solely about "learning skills to fit us for success in a specific career". I think it should be about fitting us to be a citizen of the world, a member of society and giving us an insight into the huge and varied knowledge the human race has amassed.

I agree with that, but it isn't that simple. Take art, for instance - DD2 is very good at it and did a lot of it at home. But art at school? Badly taught, badly resourced, completely uninteresting to her. DT? She enjoyed the woodwork type stuff, but the cookery she was doing at school was light years behind what she was doing at home. And yes, I know it isn't like that for all kids - but it was for her and for DD1, and for them choosing options in Yr8 was right.

Learning how to make spag bol at school isn't going to equip you to be a member of society. Now RE - well taught and incorporating philosophy, ethics and all faiths and none - that's a subject that really gives insight into what it means to be human.

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 19:56

Cooking is really important for lots of DC and so is an understanding of nutrition. I cannot believe anyone thinks that subject is all about a spaghetti dish. It could influence DC to eat well and save the NHS £ billions! It’s very important for society and it’s a shame you cannot see the bigger picture!

Comefromaway · 24/03/2022 20:04

Are you a teacher Tizer? Because my very recent experience of Food Tech in school is that it is all about cooking things like Spag Bol & a lot of it is more akin to a science experiment (observing the effect of changing 1 ingredient each time etc)

JustOneMoreStep · 24/03/2022 20:10

Like everything there are pros and cons both ways. Personally I prefer a 2 year GCSE and I think this probably works better for humanities/sciences/maths/literacy based subjects as it is what the GCSE curriculum is designed to be studied over and prevents the content becoming too stale. There is also a massive difference in the maturity of some students in terms of studying those materials too.

Professionally speaking, I think the 3 year GCSE is beneficial for skills based subjects (creative arts/tech based subjects) where usually at least 1/3 of the grade is based on skills which need to be developed and refined over time. The extra year of really focusing on skill development (as opposed to knowledge) can be really beneficial.

MerryMarigold · 24/03/2022 20:51

My DC make one or two dishes per week. For one of my kids, who is completely uninterested in cooking with me, it was a revelation to him that he could actually make something he liked to eat! (Chicken strips!). It was great for his confidence.They do also study food hygiene and nutrition when it's a non cooking lesson.

pointythings · 24/03/2022 21:01

@TizerorFizz

Cooking is really important for lots of DC and so is an understanding of nutrition. I cannot believe anyone thinks that subject is all about a spaghetti dish. It could influence DC to eat well and save the NHS £ billions! It’s very important for society and it’s a shame you cannot see the bigger picture!
TizerorFizz I've seen two DDs through school and not been at all impressed with the content of the DT curriculum. There was nothing in there that they didn't already know from home, including the food hygiene and nutrition stuff. For them as individuals it added no value at all.

However, for many kids it will be quite different if they are not already learning these skills at home.

TizerorFizz · 24/03/2022 23:05

@pointythings
Why do you just look at the subject as skills? It’s more than that. It’s understanding about food combinations and healthy eating. It’s very valuable for society to have a population that understands food and eating. It’s great your DC know everything but, as we discussed earlier, 12/13 year olds should not be calling the shots on learning. In general all DC should cook and understand healthy eating.