What role does Livery companies have in schools?

[newsibling123]

I was wondering what role these livery companies have in the schools. Looking at the Mercer company, they seem to have a hand in very successful schools.

Do they fund them? Have a say in how they are run? They all seem grouped together in being very competitive schools with amazing results.

Is it a coincidence that Bute and Hall send more to St Pauls (girls and boys respectively) than any other school? Also each prep is not 'officially' linked to the St Pauls schools but act almost as unofficial juniors.

St Paul’s School, Barnes
St Paul’s Girls’ School, Hammersmith
Abingdon School, Oxfordshire
Dauntsey’s School, Wiltshire
Bute House Prepatory School for Girls, Hammersmith
The Hall School, Hampstead

This question is purely curiosity, own DC settled in prep and not choosing senior school for another year.

that's a great question, i'm not sure

There’s lots of information available about this on the internet if you want to go down a rabbit hole; there’s a long heritage of The Livery Companies being involved in the funding and support of education at all levels.

I myself received a bursary provided by a Livery Company during my final years at independent senior school when my parents divorced. There were, at that time, Livery Company representatives on the Board of Governors, and they were involved in funding various building projects and and sponsoring certain curricular and extra curricular endeavours.

yes, they fund them to some degree.
city of london corporation funds 3 (private) schools ; drapers company at least one (private); brewers company at least one (state).
The schools tend to be very old and the links go back hundreds of years.
As well as some level of funding, they tend to send a few dignitaries to prize days and/or make a grand building available for ceremonies a few times a year.
They may have representation on the board of governors, and they may have a role in governing the charitable foundation that administers the school's endowment of "old money", if there is one.

As far as I've seen (from a great distance) they play a fairly benevolent role. Though you could question whether private schools already rolling in loot need even more when state schools are so underfunded.

Supporting education and training is central to the charitable work of the Livery. The companies are very proud of their connections to schools.

The Mercer’s support charities to thd tune of £15m a year of which education is one part. You failed to mention the far greater number of state schools that they support and their charitable support of DC in many other ways. They have supported education since the 16th century. Some of the comments here show no understanding of the broader picture of their charitable work.

It’s a bit like the RC church, CofE, Methodists and other charitable organisations that founded schools. They have historic connections and were often the first in an area to offer education to anyone.

Thanks for the replies. The question really was just out of historical curiosity, I know the Worshipful Company of Mercers has a long list of state schools, including a new academy in Hammersmith relatively recently ( Hammersmith Academy) - I was interested in the private schools and how they relate to each other under the Livery company.

There does seem to be an air of mystery about all of this, but I think its in part intentional from them to avoid the public eye.

I went to a school which was founded by a livery company- not the mercers. They offered scholarships and bursaries and contributed to the prize givings I believe.

They turned up in all their finery for Founders' Day and processed around the Quad and into the Great Hall. We are invited to the Old Boys/ Girls dinners which are held in their Livery Hall in the City each year.

On a day to day basis, I don't remember there being much more to it- although we shared their motto and badge; those were all over the school, even our books and folders. I definitely knew which company founded the school, much as I know which company founded the other local schools in London. My school was not part of a large chain of livery company schools, it was the only one in London and I believe the only co-ed one in the UK.

@newsibling123
What mystery? Their web site seems clear to me. You are trying to find cronyism via this sponsorship.

[quote TizerorFizz]@newsibling123
What mystery? Their web site seems clear to me. You are trying to find cronyism via this sponsorship.[/quote]
@TizerorFizz

Can you send the link which answers my OP how the schools are interconnected?

All I found was the statement:

*Associated Schools and Colleges
The Company has links to a diverse group of 16 Associated Schools and Colleges, which the Company supports by:

Appointing governors to 14 of the schools and colleges
Encouraging the governors and heads to be effective leaders through training
Supporting the wellbeing of their students through the Anna Freud initiative
Providing a grant making programme that the schools can access for initiatives which align with our Special Initiatives*

I’m saying they are not connected. Other than by what you can read. They are charitable donations and historical connections keep a governor or two in place.

My DD went to a Methodist school. It didn’t really mean anything. It was a school founded on Methodist principles. On balance if charities fine money for leadership, mental health and other school matters, and check the money is spent appropriately by having a governor at the school, what on earth is wrong with that?

@TizerorFizz

I’m saying they are not connected. Other than by what you can read. They are charitable donations and historical connections keep a governor or two in place.

My DD went to a Methodist school. It didn’t really mean anything. It was a school founded on Methodist principles. On balance if charities fine money for leadership, mental health and other school matters, and check the money is spent appropriately by having a governor at the school, what on earth is wrong with that?

I think we are at cross wires here @TizerorFizz

I'm not suggesting anything murky about Livery Companies, I find their history and charity fascinating. I'm not sure if you know the London schools mentioned in my OP well, but officially Bute House is not a feeder school for St Pauls girls, just as Hall is not a feeder school for St Pauls boys ( Hall being miles away from St Pauls boys on the other side of the river)

The stats show the below, which is interesting as the only connection all four schools share is the Mercer company. The prep schools Bute and Hall send the most to St Pauls, girls and St Pauls boys all 4 are Mercer. My OP was trying to find out how this all interconnects, as I couldn't find anything online.

2021 acceptances for St Pauls Girls senior school:

Bute House 15 offers (13 accepted offers, 61 candidates)
Kensington Prep School 12 offers (out of 40 candidates)
Pembridge Hall 8 offers (7 accepted, 56 candidates)
Glendower Prep 7 offers (5 accepted, out of 32 candidates)
Falkner House 5 offers (5 accepted, 22 candidates)
St Mary’s Hampstead 2 offers (39 candidates)
Newton Prep at least 1 accepted offer
The Roche School 1 accepted offer
Kew College 1
Thomas’s Kensington 1
Sarum Hall at least 1 accepted offer
Queen’s College Prep 1 accepted offer
Old Vicarage School, 1 accepted offer
Orchard House School, 1 accepted offe

2017 acceptances for St Pauls Boys senior

St Paul’s Junior School (moving up): about 85 each year
The Hall School, Hampstead: 18 (out of 60)
Durston House, Ealing: 9 (out of 43)
King’s House School, Richmond: 8 (out of 43)
Arnold House, St John’s Wood: 6 (out of 25)
Wetherby Prep: 5 (out of 61)
Eaton House the Manor: 3 (out of 34)
Hill House: 3 (out of 63 boys)
Fulham Prep: 2 (out of 35 boys)
Mall School: 2 (out of 27)
Lyndhurst House, Hampstead 2 (out of 18)
St Anthony’s School, Hampstead 2 (out of 40)
Sussex House: 1 (out of 36)
Devonshire House: 1 (out of 35 boys)
Hereward House 1 (out of 12)

Honestly these prep schools just attract the brightest DC whose parents want these senior schools. You cannot find any other connection because there isn’t one. Except a charity.

When I was at school The Worshipful Company of Farriers became involved with us. No idea why; we had nothing to do with horses.

What did “involved” mean? They gave the school some money? Maybe a parent was a member?

@TizerorFizz

Honestly these prep schools just attract the brightest DC whose parents want these senior schools. You cannot find any other connection because there isn’t one. Except a charity.

So effectively you're saying Bute House and The Hall attract the brightest DC whose parents want St Pauls girls and boys.

There is no other connection between St Pauls girls and Bute and St Pauls boys and Hall....other than the charity. (Mercer)

I agree, my OP was the connection you yourself recognise, the charity. I don't see how this connection is answered online- can you?

There was an Annual Farriers' Prize for an essay.

@TizerorFizz

The Mercer’s support charities to thd tune of £15m a year of which education is one part. You failed to mention the far greater number of state schools that they support and their charitable support of DC in many other ways. They have supported education since the 16th century. Some of the comments here show no understanding of the broader picture of their charitable work.

It’s a bit like the RC church, CofE, Methodists and other charitable organisations that founded schools. They have historic connections and were often the first in an area to offer education to anyone.

I would say from experience it's nothing like the RC church, CofE, Methodists etc.

Speaking from experience, the RC church uses schools as vehicles for religious indoctrination. I remember being forced to rote-learn catechism, and being "confirmed as an adult in the faith" at the age of 10. It's basically brain-washing.

In France and the US, any school in receipt of taxpayer funds must be entirely secular. If you want a school to brain-wash your child, you actually have to pay for it. We have a great deal to learn from them.

@newsibling123
You are searching for a connection that in reality is a charitable connection. Parents want schools that provide the best chance of their destination senior school. They really don’t look at livery companies. If you are a journalist you need to dig deeper! If you can probe Dc don’t get into top schools on merit, then do so.

I can tell you that parents are like lemmings. They know certain schools have a track record with certain top senior schools. My DDs old prep had the head of a top destination school as a governor. I guess you think that’s wrong too?

Yes I can see religious schools are not the same but some like the Methodist schools are very light touch. Where DDs went you simply wouldn’t know from every day life there and virtually no one chooses the school because it has Methodist leanings in Chapel. RC is different but loads of independent schools are CofE.

[quote TizerorFizz]@newsibling123
You are searching for a connection that in reality is a charitable connection. Parents want schools that provide the best chance of their destination senior school. They really don’t look at livery companies. If you are a journalist you need to dig deeper! If you can probe Dc don’t get into top schools on merit, then do so.

I can tell you that parents are like lemmings. They know certain schools have a track record with certain top senior schools. My DDs old prep had the head of a top destination school as a governor. I guess you think that’s wrong too?

Yes I can see religious schools are not the same but some like the Methodist schools are very light touch. Where DDs went you simply wouldn’t know from every day life there and virtually no one chooses the school because it has Methodist leanings in Chapel. RC is different but loads of independent schools are CofE.[/quote]
@TizerorFizz

You seem to making strawman arguments here, you say 'You are searching for a connection that in reality is a charitable connection.' You then say, ' My DDs old prep had the head of a top destination school as a governor. I guess you think that’s wrong too?'

To be honest, I don't even know why you are replying to my OP, when I simply ask, ' What role do Livery Companies have in schools', unless you have knowledge of a Livery company, why are you posting on this thread? I don't think anything is 'wrong' neither do I think something is amiss, or DC getting into somewhere other than merit, or cronyism or whatever nonsense you've been writing on this thread accusing me of.

Please stop, I suggest you take a break and post on threads where you can have a meaningful contribution.

As @piisnot3 mentions, your experience of Methodist schools contributes NOTHING to this do with this thread and your accusations against me are way off too.

Two of my dds were educated at schools associated with Livery Companies. There is plenty of information on the internet about their involvement in education.

www.liverycompanies.info/library/the-livery-in-education-a4.pdf

[quote bevelino]Two of my dds were educated at schools associated with Livery Companies. There is plenty of information on the internet about their involvement in education.

www.liverycompanies.info/library/the-livery-in-education-a4.pdf[/quote]
This is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

Thank you so much @bevelino it answers so many questions around these marvellous institutions.

I think they give them money. And to state schools too. End of.

@Moominmammacat
That’s what I said in the first place. Don’t see I needed to be called out when Op couldn’t do her own research.

And the very short section on Mercer’s in the document attached tells you next to nothing about what they do or links between schools which is what the op was on a fishing expedition about. But so glad it’s EXACTLY what she wanted.

@TizerorFizz

And the very short section on Mercer’s in the document attached tells you next to nothing about what they do or links between schools which is what the op was on a fishing expedition about. But so glad it’s EXACTLY what she wanted.

Wow, you really are triggered @TizerorFizz

Unlike your patronising nonsense about Methodists, the PDF shows context of Livery in education, crucially it provides context.

Under Mercer, unlike their website , which I already quoted it states:

"The Mercers current support for these schools and colleges is largely
through the provision of grants and governors, and facilitating
networking and the sharing of best practice between them. "

Ergo, evidence the schools do work together, so thus my post earlier, it answered my OP, unlike your confrontational, patronising, trollish ignorant claptrap, which added zero to the debate.