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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

School appeal - references

17 replies

Schoolappeal1 · 07/03/2022 22:19

Hello.

I was wondering if anyone can help. I’m appealing
the secondary school place my child has been allocated. She didn’t get her first choice even though we meet criteria 5 - proximity and additionally we are a feeder school into her first choice. It makes no sense. Everyone else in her class and everyone we know from further afield got a place at that school.

State schools:
When allocating a school place do councils ask for references from teachers as part of the whole process? Or is it just based on the criteria outlined by each school? If a reference is given, would the appeal panel make all this information available to me before the hearing?

Private schools:
I know teachers are asked to give a reference, if I’ve had issues with the school but my child performs well, can they give her a bad reference and can I ask to see this reference from the school? If not, can I request it under a FOI act?

OP posts:

MiniDaffodils · 07/03/2022 22:22

No references for state schools. Just the admissions criteria.

MustDust · 07/03/2022 22:22

As a state school they have a published admissions criteria and have to follow this to the letter. She may meet criteria 5 but there may be other children meeting criteria 1-4, even if they're further afield. You have to prove they have incorrectly applied the criteria, it's nothing to do with references. I've no idea how private works,sorry.

ChildOfFriday · 07/03/2022 22:26

For state schools, there will be no references at all. Places will be allocated strictly in order of the published admissions criteria. It may be worth having a look on your LEA's website to see if they have published a breakdown of how places were allocated to see where the cut off was, and checking that you are on the waiting list and in what position.

PanelChair · 07/03/2022 23:22

There are no references.

Is category 5 solely about distance? It might be that the children who live farther away were in categories 1-4 and so correctly given places. But if you think there has been an error, ask the admissions authority (school or LEA) to confirm which category they placed you in, and the distance between home and school as they measured it.

If you appeal, you are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you’ve got. You will need to identify things about the preferred school which mean that your child will be disadvantaged if they don’t get a place.

Original poster

Schoolappeal1 · 07/03/2022 23:24

Thank you. I did check but they say they can’t tell me her position on the waiting list until the end of March due to the school acceptance process.

I checked about how places were allocated and 145 were submitted under proximity, the last and largest criteria. Someone I know who lives further than me and the school got a place but we didn’t do. it doesn’t make any sense. I feel like saying make it make sense!

I’m appealing but I think it would be a long shot to prove this, i can’t just say I know so and so and they got in and we didn’t. So whilst I’ll mention that I think I need to cover all bases. I don’t have their data or access to it so it’s my word against the admissions.

That’s why I thought I’d ask about references as I was told teachers write references but I don’t want someones view against me to Impact my child. I wanted to know if I could see the references written by the teachers as we applied at both state and private and if they give references to each type of school applied to

OP posts:

Original poster

Schoolappeal1 · 07/03/2022 23:26

Thank you panel chair I will ask them what you have said 😊

OP posts:

PanelChair · 07/03/2022 23:44

Ask them to confirm the distance at which the last place was awarded under category 5. To a certain extent, you do need to take their word for it because their measurements will come from a computer package (usually) which measures from a data point on your home to a data point at the school, so it’s not easy for you to double-check, but you can still ask. If their information suggests a mistake was made (eg last place awarded under category 5 was a mile but you live three streets away) then you can take it further.

EduCated · 07/03/2022 23:51

You mention that you are at a feeder school. Is this a formal, named feeder school, and if so is there a higher category for feeder schools that you should have been considered under?

If a mistake has been made which has directly cost you a place, the LA should just correct the mistake (although I understand some will still push you through an appeal in order to do so).

PanelChair · 07/03/2022 23:55

Yes, if any of categories 1-4 is for children at feeder schools, check too why you weren’t placed in that category.

WaterTheBasil · 08/03/2022 06:50

When I appealed, I was sent all of the 'evidence' for want of a better word from the LEAs side about a week before.

It was mostly about fire exits in mine.

My advice to you is that you really need to understand the appeal process before you start. I didn't have a clue when I started but I did a lot of reading on it. Do t waste your chance by writing a load of stuff that isn't relevant to the actual criteria.

BendingSpoons · 08/03/2022 07:10

What are the categories? Is category 5 for those at a feeder school or just distance? As Panelchair says, you can ask them the furthest distance admitted and check that against your distance. I

If feeder schools give official priority, then check she is correctly registered as at a feeder school.

Those who got in from further away may have met higher criteria e.g. having an EHCP or being adopted. You can't really check that but you can check your own details.

eddiemairswife · 08/03/2022 22:57

Quite often people will say that a primary school is a feeder school, because most of the pupils there go on to a particular secondary school, but unless a school is named as a feeder in the admission criteria that category doesn't exist.

PanelChair · 09/03/2022 09:39

Exactly. “Feeder school” has a precise meaning, not just “lots of children from this primary go on to that secondary every year”.

SimpleShootingWeekend · 09/03/2022 10:59

Someone I know who lives further than me and the school got a place but we didn’t do

This child may have been in cat 1-4. You need to know your distance and the distance of the most distant child in that category. It’s no good knowing that x child lives 500m further away than you if they have got in in siblings/faith/loc or whatever categories 1-4 are. It’s possible they’ve measured wrong, or even that someone else has used a alternate address, but you can’t appeal on those grounds until you know the distance that someone who isn’t covered by 1-4 needs to be to get in.

Lookjaz · 09/03/2022 11:29

Did you apply in the correct timeframe, as if your application was late you would have been very lucky to get your first choice

Original poster

Schoolappeal1 · 09/03/2022 17:02

Yep, applied in correct time frame, did everything right. The people that got in would have got in on proximity aswell. I don’t know how they got away with it.

Turns out we are in an unofficial feeder school. Meaning the high school comes round, promotes itself to the kids, invites the class over to its school. It should just list itself as a feeder school on the admissions criteria, why get kids excited about your school.

I’m going to tailor my appeal on the strength of what the school provides that is beneficial to my daughter and how my daughter can contribute to the wider school.

If anyone has successfully appealed not on the basis of medical grounds or anything that compelling, basically on the basis of please just give us a place at your school! How did you succeed.

What can I do or say etc to give my appeal the best chance! Any advice would be appreciated

OP posts:

SimpleShootingWeekend · 09/03/2022 20:21

The people that got in would have got in on proximity aswell

Do you know that for sure? I’m guessing it’s a family you know from primary but could there be a medical need or a secret step sibling you don’t know about? Or a period as a loc, or is the child adopted and they’ve not told people? If they have got in on proximity and you live closer then one of 3 things have happened. The school does proximity by a different method to you, such as walking route instead of as the crow flies or vice versa. In this case you need to check the distance they have for you is correct. I know an appeal that worked on the basis that a footpath hadn’t been used for a route so the school were putting half a mile on the journey by only using roads. Secondly, there is a mistake in which case they have to give you a place. You need to know if there is a mistake and how far they have offered under the distance catergory. Thirdly the other family has lied. My neighbour did this and the child lost the place a week or so before the start of term. Is it the sort of school people would lie to get into?
You have a much better chance appealing if there is an error in the distance measurement or some other mistake than by saying your child can make a contribution to the school.

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