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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Secondary admission appeal help please

31 replies

sleepingbeauty100154 · 07/03/2022 16:53

Hi, I've had a read through lots of threads on here about secondary school appeals and I apologise for adding to them but just in need of some advice.
My daughter has been offered second choice secondary school. We missed 1st choice by 40m and have since found out we are currently 4th on the waiting list. I haven't yet asked if the school waiting list gets much movement so not sure if 4th is good or not!

So I'm looking at appealing and here are my reasons.
I know normally distance isn't taken into account, however #1 is closer and the bus stops directly outside the school or a 15 min walk. #2 school is a 10 minute walk to bus stop either end or a 30 min walk. This is important for us as my daughter has a complex cardiac condition and can get exhausted - especially after a day at school. She is generally good and knows her own limits but I'd like her to be independent and get to/ from school on her own and enjoy her day without the tiredness. Also on this note, while both schools do not have their own sports grounds (they both use independent grounds), #1 uses a minibus to transport the students to and from the fields, whereas #2 walk there and back (no other option) which is 22 minutes each way. That plus a double pe lesson would leave my daughter very fatigued for the rest of the day and possibly the following day. .I would like her to be able to join in just like the other students but fear this wouldn't happen often at #2.

The other reason which may seem silly to some is that my daughter had her heart set on studying textiles (her older sister did this and she's fallen in love with all things textiles! Even asking for and getting her own sewing machine for Christmas!) #1 offers textiles from year 7 to A Level, yet #2 doesn't even offer it at all. This is something my daughter is extremely upset about but not sure if it's worth mentioning?

Other thing to mention but probably not important is that #1 is single sex school, coed 6th form and #2 is coed school, no 6th form. My daughter desperately wanted single sex school. She spent Yr 5 being tormented by a boy in her class and that boy has now been offered a place at #2.....

Any thoughts on if it's worth appealing?

I was originally going to apply under their medical/ social criteria but at the time I was caring for my mum who was losing a very sudden and nasty battle against cancer (she passed on Nov 1st). I was in such a state that I ended up applying on 22nd October under sibling criteria, forgetting that year 13 doesn't count for siblings (my own fault).

I can gather the obvious medical details of her heart condition - she will be requiring more surgery soon and her current primary school is writing a supporting letter stating they also feel #1 is better suited to her needs.

Any help from anyone would be really appreciated!

Thanks x

OP posts:
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 07/03/2022 17:03

Definitely worth it on all the things you mention including textiles. Get her cardiac consultant to put in writing exactly what her condition is and why the shorter travel and minibus are the only acceptable option plus the likely effects of a longer walk.

BendingSpoons · 07/03/2022 18:15

I agree, mention the textiles too. Your strongest argument is the health needs. Definitely ask the medical professionals for a letter that clearly states what she needs to mitigate this.

Also cross your fingers that you might get a waiting list place before you need to appeal. How big is the school? 4th sounds hopeful, although of course you can go up and down on the list.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 07/03/2022 19:14

@BendingSpoons

I agree, mention the textiles too. Your strongest argument is the health needs. Definitely ask the medical professionals for a letter that clearly states what she needs to mitigate this.

Also cross your fingers that you might get a waiting list place before you need to appeal. How big is the school? 4th sounds hopeful, although of course you can go up and down on the list.

Thank you both. I'm calling the cardiac nurses tomorrow and will email the consultants secretary to ask for a supporting letter naming the school in question. I'm also going to ask the gp to do the same, plus her primary school who currently has a healthcare plan for her (Not ehcp) are also going to name #1 school based on them knowing her needs at school - not sure how much weight this will hold?

#1 school intake is 120 so fairly small, so not sure how hopeful a place is being 4th on the waiting list? I will call them again in a couple of weeks to see if there's any movement. I know we can move down as well as up but I'm trying to hold on to a little hope that we will be offered before needing to sit in an appeal......

OP posts:
PanelChair · 07/03/2022 19:15

Yes, I think you have the basis of a strong case there. Obviously, whether you win will depend in part on the strength (or not) of the school’s case not to admit.

Try to obtain a letter from your child’s paediatrician/cardiologist which explains her health issues and says clearly that in their opinion she needs a place at this school. The curriculum issue is then a second argument to support your case.

clarrylove · 07/03/2022 19:17

Do they normally take over PAN? You may find they regularly do in which you should have a strong case. Good luck with the waiting list and appeal.

Bessica1970 · 07/03/2022 19:29

I wouldn’t mention the textiles or single sex reasons - neither are appeal worthy, they also detract from your main argument (medical) which is strong on its own. Gather as much evidence as you can, and good luck 🤞

PanelChair · 07/03/2022 19:39

No! The textiles point is very appeal-worthy if OP’s child has a demonstrable interest in studying textiles and it’s not available elsewhere. Curriculum provision is one of the areas in which parents can argue that their child’s need for a place outweighs the school’s need not to increase pupil numbers.

Imitatingdory · 07/03/2022 20:55

If your appeal is unsuccessful ask the LA about school transport.

LightBulbous · 07/03/2022 21:16

@Bessica1970

I wouldn’t mention the textiles or single sex reasons - neither are appeal worthy, they also detract from your main argument (medical) which is strong on its own. Gather as much evidence as you can, and good luck 🤞
I work in admissions and the textiles thing is absolutely something that could help build a strong case. We’ve had successful appeals join us on similar grounds. It should definitely be included.
Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 08/03/2022 11:21

@clarrylove

Do they normally take over PAN? You may find they regularly do in which you should have a strong case. Good luck with the waiting list and appeal.
I asked today and their reply was : "each year we admit 120 students in accordance to our PAN" Does this mean that either no one ever appeals or that appeals are never ever won?!
OP posts:
EduCated · 08/03/2022 11:26

Tbh sounds like they’re being deliberately vague! Ask for the current number of students in each year group - you’re looking for any year group currently that is over 120.

PanelChair · 08/03/2022 11:37

No, it just means they admit up to PAN (as they are supposed to) and then may have to admit additional pupils on appeal.

Ask them for the actual numbers in each year group, because it will help your argument if any year group is above PAN. The school’s case will always be a version of “we couldn’t possibly cope if we went above PAN”, but you can chip away at that if the numbers show they’re already coping above PAN in other year groups. (This is actually more useful information than the number of appeals won and lost, because each appeal turns on its own facts, so somebody winning their appeal tells you very little about whether you might win yours).

Mumdiva99 · 08/03/2022 11:46

You used to be able to download all the school census data - which would tell you how many kids in each year at the school. From that you can show if a precedent has been set of going over class sizes.

But the medical info sounds enough.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 13:55

Thanks for everyone's input. I have another question if that's OK......
My daughters current primary school have offered to write a supporting letter in anyway they can, but I've read that this may not be helpful or even accepted at appeal.

Is there anyone that can say whether I should get this letter and if so, what should they write about? Should they say about how my daughter copes at school currently? Should they name the school that I'm appealing to or just remain impartial sort of thing?

I'm trying to gather as much as possible but I don't want to do anything that may jeopardise the appeal!

Thanks again :)

OP posts:
Playdoughcaterpillar · 09/03/2022 13:58

I would have thought the letter from your specialist most useful and sounds likely you should win appeal but also at 4th it would also seem fairly likely you are offered a place soon anyway. Good luck OP. Don't forget to come back and update us!

Mumdiva99 · 09/03/2022 14:31

Yes get a letter from the school. Ask them to lost some of the adjustments they make for her, their experience of extra exertion and why they think the local school is more suitable. You submit all your evidence in advance and the panel consider it even if they don't specifically ask about it.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/03/2022 15:51

We included a letter from primary stating why they felt our preferred school was the only suitable school. It was short and to the point. It was certainly allowed but I don't know how big a part it played in convincing the panel. The consultant's letter was the most important.

prh47bridge · 09/03/2022 18:13

A supporting letter from the primary school can help if they are expressing their professional opinion about your daughter's need for this school. However, a letter simply saying they support you won't help.

It is true that some appeal panels won't accept letters from the primary school due to misunderstanding the Appeals Code. Paragraph 2.13 prohibits school representatives from supporting individual appeals but only for places at their school. It doesn't stop them from supporting appeals for other schools.

Having said that, evidence from medical professionals will carry more weight. You want them to be clear that they are expressing their professional opinion, not simply echoing your views.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 18:54

Feeling disheartened tonight.... found out that last year, school #1 took on a bulge class and is now therefore pretty much at capacity. That's what they will use in the appeal isn't it? Not much chance I can argue with that is there??? Think I'm holding onto a miracle here :(

OP posts:
Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 18:56

Just to add, government website states the schools capacity is 1000, and pupils on roll is 911

OP posts:
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/03/2022 19:08

At least one of the experts on here has said you've got the makings of a strong case. Even if the LA have a strong case, you can still persuade the panel that yours is stronger. You just have to make sure the panel have enough information to understand. Don't give up. I won our appeal with help from an expert on here.

Perfect28 · 09/03/2022 19:16

I genuinely can't believe that a school make a class walk 22minutes in each direction to get to a pe lesson?! Also you definitely should challenge the single sex thing. She got harrased by one boy, not all boys.

Treecreature · 09/03/2022 19:21

40m as in distance? I had a friend who's kid was turned down to move primary school due to distance (Our council uses shortest walking distance, not as the crow flies). They used Google maps to calculate it but the route went all the way around his estate. My friend proved how the distance was much shorter as he left through the back door, through the back gate and used the estates internal paths. It worked for him.

prh47bridge · 09/03/2022 20:12

If capacity is 1000 but they only have 911 pupils on roll there is plenty of room for additional pupils. Don't give up. You have a good case.

PanelChair · 09/03/2022 22:48

The bulge class is not good news - it will add to the school’s argument that they can’t take additional pupils - but neither is it disastrous. You still have sound arguments around her health needs and the curriculum, so press on.