Appeal advice please

[PorcelainPenguin]

Hello, dd has been allocated a place at 3rd choice school and is very disappointed.

Her friendship group are split between our 1st and 2nd choices, and it seems that only a handful of pupils in her year will be at the school she has been allocated.

I will appeal, but (as is doubtless the case for most parents in the same boat), I’ve not done this before and am daunted by the prospect of not putting forward the best appeal I can.

DD has no SEN.

Allocated school is closest.

We are in the catchment area for 1st choice school, although 2nd choice is closer than 1st choice.

She is on the waiting list for both.

I know that “her friends are going to this school” is not a good enough reason, but is it still worth mentioning?

I am half Spanish. Allocated school only offers Spanish in year 7, the others offer it to GCSE. www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk suggests that this could be good grounds (paraphrasing) “1st choice offers Spanish to GCSE; my child’s grandfather is Spanish and she would like to be able to communicate with family when we visit and gain a deeper understanding of her heritage ” would I need to prove this with my birth certificate/marriage cert/passport in old name?

(Would I be asked “well why haven’t you taught her, you useless parent ?” - I have in a sporadic, minor way, not a teacher, lacked the discipline to just get on with it yadda yadda excuses)

Do I include a character description in the appeal?

She would like to be an artist or an art teacher – 1st choice school has 4 art studios! Allocated school has 1, is this enough to argue that 1st choice is more likely to "allow her to reach her full potential"?

Or are career aspirations of 11 year olds not really taken into account?

Or is “reach full potential” more of a phrase to use regarding students moving on to further education after GCSEs?
For the latest – 2019 – data on compare school performance on the gov.uk site, 1st choice only had 1% more pupils continuing in education than allocated school.
Maybe I could look at previous years and mention it if the trend was in our favour, even though that’s all pre covid and who knows where we’re headed.

I have looked at performance data on gov.uk but it seems quite general, for example, it shows the number of pupils taking each subject at GCSE but not what the overall results were.

Sorry for the ramble.

Thank you

The appeal is to show that the benefit to your child of attending the school is more than the detriment to the school in admitting an extra student. Also you are arguing for your chosen school, not against the other one. Both the Spanish and the art are good reasons to want the school (although you may have to evidence that your daughter is genuinely interested/talented in art - just wanting to be an art teacher won't be enough).

Even if she has a passion/talent for art, there is no reason why she needs to go to a school with more than one art studio.

@Einszwei

Even if she has a passion/talent for art, there is no reason why she needs to go to a school with more than one art studio.

There is if it limits the opportunities to study art e.g. if Art is only taught for part of the year on rotation in KS3. Are there restrictions on how many students can take Art GCSE (there are 5 GCSE groups in my DD's year - that wouldn't be possible with only 1 art room)?

Thank you redsky, I'll ask the school if art is taught on rotation.
What sort of evidence would be required, portfolio? Letter from current school?

Thank you Einzwei, I'd be second guessing myself and thinking that too.

The art and Spanish arguments are strong, but (as you recognise) the friendship argument is weak. You don’t need to produce your passport to prove that you are a Spanish speaker, but be ready to mention to the panel why it’s important to you and your child (family links, holidays, whatever).

Much will depend on how strong the school’s case is for not admitting your child, but it sounds as if you can at least construct a reasonable case for the panel to consider.

Thank you panelchair

Worth too trying to find out if the preferred school offers more options for Art GCSE (e.g. the different specialisms) as compared to the other school.

How come you didn't get into your first preference if you're in a catchment?

I don't think the phrase "allow her to reach full potential" really means anything to be honest.
I would look at how many pupils study Art GCSE in each school and how they decide GCSE options / timetabling. Is there data for how many pupils take Art GCSE at each school and is it the case that more take GCSE Art at school 1? Are other Art options available for pupils to try at KS3 at school 1?
Statistics about moving to further education aren't relevant for Y7 appeals because lots of pupils move schools for sixth form.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

How come you didn't get into your first preference if you're in a catchment?

I don't know about the OP, but there are many, many people round here who don't get into their nearest catchment school. We are in catchment for 3. One is a catholic school miles away. One we can walk to (and would be unlikely to get allocated) and one a bus ride away. So busses it is for my kids.

I’d say that if you’re using the Spanish language argument as an appeal, I’d have expected her to already be fluent in Spanish. If she doesn’t speak it at all— or very minimally - that argument doesn’t hold water.

@Soontobe60

I’d say that if you’re using the Spanish language argument as an appeal, I’d have expected her to already be fluent in Spanish. If she doesn’t speak it at all— or very minimally - that argument doesn’t hold water.

I would disagree. If she was already fluent in Spanish, why would she need a school that teaches the subject? Whereas if she wants to learn Spanish, a school that teaches it would be beneficial.

I agree with PanelChair that the art and Spanish arguments are strong.

And I agree with prh47bridge. The weaker argument (I tend to think) is where a child is already pretty much fluent and the provision at school will be very basic and aimed at beginners, although this tends to be more at primary school level.

@PanelChair

And I agree with prh47bridge. The weaker argument (I tend to think) is where a child is already pretty much fluent and the provision at school will be very basic and aimed at beginners, although this tends to be more at primary school level.

No, I’m not having that. Using the ‘half Spanish’ point as an appeal reason smacks of finding something to play the system. If a parent wanted their child to be able to communicate with extended family in their chosen language, why wait until they’re 11 before they think about teaching them? I teach children who and bi and sometimes tri-lingual. They don’t have specific language lessons, they just know the language because their parent has spoken to them in that language since birth. I’d also expect for the applicant to have added this detail on the application form rather than waiting for a possible appeal.

Adding it to the application would have made no difference unless there was a specific language criteria (and I’m not aware of any that exist). It would not and could not have been considered at that stage.

Applications and appeals work differently and follow different principles. It will be the job of the appeal panel to weigh up the case made by the parent and the case made by the school and decide what is the right thing to do. It will also partly depend on other appeals and how strong or not the panel feel OP’s case is stronger than other cases, if they feel school can indeed cope with additional pupil(s).

No-one is saying half-Spanish equals a shoe in, but school may have a weak case and be able to deal with additional pupils.

It sounds rather odd that a school might offer Spanish only in year 7. I would double-check the situation. It might be, for instance, that they are just switching across to offering Spanish, and so although the only pupils currently learning it are year 7, they will be continuing through to GCSE.

It would be a shame to build a case on the Spanish issue and have them turn round and tell you she can do Spanish GCSE in her allocated school!

Well Soontobe might 'not be having it' but they are arguing with actual Appeal experts who know of what they speak.

No, I’m not having that. Using the ‘half Spanish’ point as an appeal reason smacks of finding something to play the system

You dont have to 'have it' It's the sort of thing however that DOES make a strong appeal - as several appeal experts on this thread agree. They don't need your approval.

No, I’m not having that. Using the ‘half Spanish’ point as an appeal reason smacks of finding something to play the system

To win an appeal, you find something the appeal school offers that will be beneficial for your child. If they want to pursue a subject that the appeal school offers that is missing from the offered school, that should be part of the case. You may regard it as "playing the system" but it is the way the system works.

I’d also expect for the applicant to have added this detail on the application form rather than waiting for a possible appeal.

Why? It would not have made any difference. The admissions process doesn't take this kind of thing into account. That is what appeals are for.

Soontobe60 - I am telling you what I might think (were I to be on the panel) and what other panel members might be likely to think, although (of course) much would depend on the detail. Of course you’re free to disagree but have you done the compulsory training for appeal panel members? The focus is on what the child needs, not what parents want.

Near here, we have several primary schools which have a small amount of foreign language provision. This is often mentioned in appeals, but (according to the facts of each case) it’s sometimes hard to believe that a bilingual child needs (as opposed to wants) a term of colouring sheets labelled as chien and chat. They’re already way beyond that.

OP says herself that she might have done more to help her child learn Spanish, but the fact remains that five years of Spanish could make a very real difference and could be what the child needs to build relationships with family etc.

I have queried the apparent "only year 7s do spanish" with the allocated school. I'll call them on Friday if I've not had a response by then.

2nd choice school got back to me with "hoping to offer Spanish to some pupils in the future" so allocated school (& 1st choice) is actually the better option.

Dd would benefit from the consistency of lessons which I have regretfully not provided.