DD didn't get into any of our school preferences - any options?

[HannahTone]

We live in an area with really low performing schools, so after having checked the preferences list and admission criteria, we put the further schools as our top 3 choices because we really did not want DD to end up into one of the school nearby, as we heard lots of nasty rumours about them, but then added them in the last 3 choices just so if nothing else, she does get accepted into the more reasonable ones near our house.

However, on offer day, we got rejected out of all our preferences and DD got put into one of the most low performing schools which are even further away than the nearby school I put in number 4.

Now, I just contacted the council and the lady was really rude and just told me to wait till 21st March when the waiting lists will be out and that she will be put on waiting lists for all 6 schools, but given higher preference for the first school. I'm not even sure she knew what she was talking about tbh, but realistically I dont think she'll get the 1st school choice, so I was thinking of getting her to higher preference to the more reasonable school near to us, but I dont know if I can do that?

Has anyone been in a similar situation, do you think I could do that, or does that seem like an impossible thing to do? Please help a struggling mum!

If you look at the data for the past few years, would child at your address have expected to get into one of your last 3 choices?
What about DDs classmates, where are they all going?
ie do you think there might have been a mistake?

Hope you get some answers soon.

Social and medical reasons are the only things that count when you apply for schools that aren’t in your catchment area. You should only be choosing further away schools if you can justify it eg her existing friends / relatives go there or if she has a deathly allergy to something common & the new school is on the doorstep to an A&E.

Also, lower performing schools tend to have more current ratings and so may be performing at a higher level than so called Outstanding schools who haven’t had an Ofsted rating in 10 years. This needs to be kept firmly in mind especially considering Ofsted’s recent crackdown on outstanding schools.

@MaizeAmaze

If you look at the data for the past few years, would child at your address have expected to get into one of your last 3 choices? What about DDs classmates, where are they all going? ie do you think there might have been a mistake?

Hope you get some answers soon.

We probably did aim a bit higher, given that the top 3 schools are a bit far.

But we did put in the nearby school as our 4th choice and she didn't even get accepted onto that, so I dont know if there might have been a mistake there? DD's classmates are all going to the 4th choice and that's why she's really disappointed, but we really don't know what to do now. Can we do in year admissions to the 4th chocie school?
From my call earlier this morning, the council said to not do anything atm as schools won't accept it, but I'm thinking of giving them a call anyway.

Also, how do you look at the previous years' data?

Thank you!!

Hi there HannahTone,

I completely understand your predicament and fully empathise as I’m much in the same position. We were offered 4th place of choice which is quite far for my son to travel too. I was really shocked we didn’t get any of the first 3. We lives 0.3 miles from our first choice, literally a 5 minute walk and still didn’t get in.

Like you, I’m not sure what to do at the moment as some people say appeal, others say don’t as my grounds won’t be strong enough. Waiting lists don’t come out till 22nd so don’t know what the likelihood is of him moving into a higher preference offer.

We will of course accept what we have been offered so we don’t lose it, but not sure what else to do as the next step.

I did call the individual schools, some were really helpful and were able to tell me his position, others advised on how much movement there has been in the past with the waiting list. So maybe try this?

Council are just robots for what’s on the website. They regurgitate and don’t really offer realistic advice for anxious parents.

Apologies if my comment hasn’t been helpful, but I wanted you to know you’re not alone!

@HannahTone Really sorry to hear this. I hope the waiting lists move for you soon. I don't think the lady you spoke to knew what she was talking about. Waiting lists are held strictly in terms of admission criteria, and the order you originally listed them on in the form will have no bearing whatsoever. If she meant that you get priority on a waiting list for putting a school first on your form originally, then she is wrong. There is no such thing as 'higher priority', just the order of the admissions criteria.

@ozanj that's not true. You can express express a preference for any school you like, while accepting that you may not get in (distance is usually the key criterion for secondary). Friends and issues with allergies are neither here nor there as a rule in application terms tbh, bit things like orchestras, sports teams or subjects not provided at other schools may help an appeal.

Op is your fourth choice your closest/catchment school? Or is there a closer one you didn't list? If the former is the case then a mistake may have been made and I would probe further. Lots of expertise on this board too.

Also, ask your current primary school for support. They must have had parents in the past who were in similar situations. My primary school has been amazingly supportive, they are running appeals workshops over the next few weeks and have a transitions officer who is there to answer questions or offer advice.

First of all, check that there hasn't been an error that has cost your child a place in any of your preferred schools (such as miscalculating the distance between home and school).

Then, make sure you are on the waiting list for any school that you'd be willing to accept (some LEAs limit the number of lists you can join, others allow any number). Waiting lists are held in the same order as the oversubscription criteria, so it's important to be sure that the school/LEA has placed you in the right admissions category and got the distance right, but there's no bonus (as far as the waiting list is concerned) for having made a school your first preference. It all depends on the oversubscription criteria - not your order of preference - so if the person at the LEA told you otherwise they are mistaken.

At this time of year, always make sure you are speaking to someone from the school admissions team. We hear too many stories of people on the main switchboard etc handing out well-intentioned but wrong advice.

@PsychologyMum100
Thank you so much, it is really helpful! It really does feel like I'm rocking the boat alone.

I have just been contacting schools directly and asking them what to do and if they can put DD on their waiting lists, and so far I think she is automatically been put into all our preferred choices, but just contactign to get her higher in the place and do whatever we can.

I honestly was not aware it'd be this chaotic, but I really think there should be regulations on Ofsted rating as basis for school preference, because how else are we going to see whether the school is a well or low performing school? And even then, like you said, we didn't even get the school that was 5 mins away from us, which boggles my mind.

But, hopefully we can get it through the waiting lists!! I honestly dont want to appeal either, as it would just add more to my stress, and I dont think we have a strong case either.

Thank you for your help!!

@HannahTone If she is on all the waiting lists then contacting the schools won't help unfortunately- there is no 'higher priority' and they will be held in the order of the admissions criteria. Of course, make sure there has been no mistake and that she is in the correct criteria/correct distance has been measured, etc, but I think you have been misled by the lady you spoke to about this higher priority thing. If she is on all the lists for the schools you would consider, that's all you can do in terms of waiting lists. The other option is to appeal, but others can give much better advice on that.

@clary
we've checked the distance from home, and our fourth choice is 0.7 miles away, whereas the one we got offered to comes up to 0.6 miles, so maybe that was it?

All the other schools are further away which we didn't list, adding to the fact that most of them we did not find to be good schools, even when visiting them, so that was among the reasons for not putting them on the list.

I'm not sure if there would be a mistake, but most of DD's classmates did get accepted into 4th choice and they live in the same area as us, so I don't know how they calculated it. On top of that, one of DD's best mates and our neighbour got into a school that's 1.2 miles away, which I really don't get how that happened.

@ChildOfFriday
I'm sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but how do I find out whether a mistake has been made? And how do I correct it?

The council have not given us any further information as to why they didnt give us an offer for our choices, nor which of the admission criterias we didnt pass for, so we have really no clue as to why our options were rejected!

@HannahTone It sounds like good news that those close to you have been offered places at the schools, as this hopefully means that you only just missed out on distance and will be high on the waiting lists. Did you apply to the school that is 1.2 miles away that others have places at? If your 4th choice is 0.7 miles away and was able to offer places as far out as this, then it wouldn't have mattered that you have another school that you didn't apply to that is closer at 0.6 miles (if I have understood you correctly there). You will only have been offered a school not on your preference list if none of those you listed were able to offer you places (so if the distance your 4th choice was able to offer to was less than the 0.7 miles you live from it). If this isn't the case, then a mistake may have been made (which is rare but can happen).

I think some LEAs put up on their website the admissions category/distance that each school was able to offer to, so it may be worth having a scour of their website and seeing if you can find it. If not, I'd try ringing them again (and hoping you get someone different!) and asking this information, as well as the distance that you have been measured at for each school, and check that they sound sensible. Please correct me if this isn't good advice though!

By 'higher preference' I think they just mean that was your first choice - say you can put down 5 school on the form and you get offers from 4 of them, the Council will put you down for the school that was highest on your form.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

See if your council has the admissions day statistics on their website which will give you the numbers from last year - ours shows the number of first preferences for each school and the total number of preferences.

So your offered school is actually nearer than your choice 4 which makes more sense. I imagine your dd's classmates live nearer it than you.

Yy I would find out from the LEA what the furthest distance offered was. Presumably less than 0.7m. If it is greater, probe that as a mistake may have been made. If it is less, hold out for a WL place - sounds like you are very close so may be lucky, esp if a lot of parents pick private schools in your area.

Putting the school higher up on the form makes no difference when it comes to getting a place as it is equal preference.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

That makes no difference at all @ChicCroissant. The pricess is blind to preference order unless multiple prefs can offer a place. Dw op that's not why your dd hasn't been offered a place.

@ChicCroissant

By 'higher preference' I think they just mean that was your first choice - say you can put down 5 school on the form and you get offers from 4 of them, the Council will put you down for the school that was highest on your form.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

See if your council has the admissions day statistics on their website which will give you the numbers from last year - ours shows the number of first preferences for each school and the total number of preferences.

As others have said, putting a school higher up on your form does not give you priority over others who listed it lower. This is a very common misconception but is completely wrong. The system has been equal preference for many years across England now.

@HannahTone You didn't disadvantage your DC by listing closer schools lower down your list. This will not be the reason that you didn't get a place at your 4th choice.

I think you've misunderstood me - if you have six preferences and get offers from 4 schools (say numbers 2,3,5 & 6) you'll get school number two as it was your highest preference.

I don't think the OP got offers from any of the schools on her list, that's why she was placed at one that she hadn't included.

Yes, but she listed choice 4 and others have a place there- it will be because they live nearer, not bc they put it higher on their list, as your post implied. Apologies if you knew that - didn't want the op to think she had done badly by listing it 4th.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

This is what we were commenting on Chic. The OP's dd's classmates putting the school 2nd on their list didn't mean they got a place above anyone like OP who put it 4th. The only reason they potentially got places was if they live closer (or fulfilled other admisisons criteria)

@Ozanj

Social and medical reasons are the only things that count when you apply for schools that aren’t in your catchment area. You should only be choosing further away schools if you can justify it eg her existing friends / relatives go there or if she has a deathly allergy to something common & the new school is on the doorstep to an A&E.

Also, lower performing schools tend to have more current ratings and so may be performing at a higher level than so called Outstanding schools who haven’t had an Ofsted rating in 10 years. This needs to be kept firmly in mind especially considering Ofsted’s recent crackdown on outstanding schools.

Not always. They aren't taken into consideration where I live.

Your order of preferences makes no difference to your position on the waiting lists. There is, therefore, no point changing your order.

The council is required to tell you why you didn't get a place at any of your preferred schools and tell you how to appeal. If you haven't had that information yet, it should arrive shortly. If you still haven't got it by the end of the week, you should chase them.

Once you get that information, you can check that they have put your daughter into the correct admission category for each school and that the home to school distance looks right. If either of these is wrong, it suggests a mistake has been made and you should take it up with the council, although they may insist that you appeal even if it is clear that there has been a mistake.

Even if there hasn't been a mistake, you can appeal for as many of the schools you applied for as you want. Note that you can't win an appeal on the basis of the allocated school being low performing and wanting a better one. You need to show specific things that the appeal school offers that are not available at the allocated school and are relevant to your daughter..

@Comefromaway

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

This is what we were commenting on Chic. The OP's dd's classmates putting the school 2nd on their list didn't mean they got a place above anyone like OP who put it 4th. The only reason they potentially got places was if they live closer (or fulfilled other admisisons criteria)

Yes, you have to meet the admissions criteria to be offered a place at the school and your preference order doesn't affect that part. If more than one school offers a place, the Admissions Office will use the preference list then, after the offer of a school place.

So I don't think the admissions office were saying they would push her up the list for school number one, just that it would remain her first preference as it was on her application.

I can guess where the OP lives due to the number of schools so close to her and it can be really hard to find a school.

FWIW, my own child didn't get their first preference but got the second - it was further away than the first and we'd have got a place there previously but that year there were a lot of applicants who lived closer. We failed at appeal as well. The school my child got is now the one that is vastly oversubscribed in the area with people chasing places, it's hard to see the way it all works sometimes and I have every sympathy to those going through it this year!

Thank you so much for your replies. I'm new to this site, so I'm not really sure how to reply to everyone, but I've made notes on the things you've mentioned, and will definitely ring the council and the schools first thing tomorrow morning.

Again, I'm not sure where I'm going wrong with this, but some of DD's classmates do live in close proximity to us and still got their place, so it really did make me think whether I put her at a disadvantage by putting the choice as the 4th option, but it seems I haven't.

I was also wondering if it was possible for us to put DD into the nearby schools which we did not put as our preferred choices? We have another school that is at 0.7 miles away from us, so could we just try and put her in that waiting list?

I just want to try everything I can for her not to go in her offered place because I've just gone away and researched and saw some really bad news about fights going on around the school, and I want to try to void that for DD as much as possible!

@prh47bridge
We actually know nothing about why we weren't given our choices, I'm not sure whether I should be checking my emails or posts, but we haven't got any information as of yet which seems very odd to me.