Do you like your system?

[YesIReallyDoLikeRootBeer]

I'm in America, so our system for school placement is very different to England (I believe Scotland is similar to here). Where ever you live, your DC go to the school for that address. You never apply for schools (Unless you choose to go to Private School). You never worry about where you will end up, or if siblings will be split. No being upset that you did not get the same school as a friend (unless you, or they, move out of district) or choosing a school just because friends are going there. Every year I watch on this board (and the Primary board) the anxiety parents and kids go through in the lead up to decision day. Then the upset so many feel when they dont get the school they want. Being put on waiting lists and maybe having your school change (maybe even more then once) as offers come from waiting list schools. As an outsider looking in I always have to wonder "why do it this way?" So I'm curious, do you like your system? Or would you rather a system (like in America and apparently Scotland) where you just go to your local school and never have to think about which school you would get? (this is only in regards to public school, not private)

We are in South Yorkshire and have a Catchment and feeder school system.

The plus side is that your child has priority admission for the local school.
It does mean that house prices can be more in the better catchments (I presume this is true in Scotland and the US too). Also there is still oversubscription criteria, so if there is too many children in catchment they can be sent elsewhere.

The negative side is that people moving, even just a mile or so, can mean the child is separated from all their friends at the Secondary transition. Also moving can mean no longer having sibling priority.

The truth is, there is no perfect system.

I think in areas where schools are generally good then it is nice to have the choice. You can pick the school whose 'ethos' you think bests fits your child. In our market town there are 2 good comps but it was clear to me which would suit our DDs better.

I think in areas where some of the schools are genuinely poor, or where there are potential 'black holes' where you don't qualify easily for any school then it is an issue.

I also think that the at times very convoluted admissions systems (GCHS I'm looking at you) and the grammar system in some areas makes the system unnecessarily complicated.

As you are in America though I have a question. Are all American high schools really as similar as TV programmes make out? (Grease to High School Musical, Goldbergs, and a bunch more. They just all seem so standardised )

No way I would want mine to go to our local school.

Different schools even very good ones suit different children they aren’t all the same. I much prefer to have some degree of choice.

The thing is, in many areas, like mine, there is very little real choice. All the schools are full every year so you go to the catchment school, or go private, unless you are prepared to drive a long way to an undersubscribed school. For many the choice is an illusion but a lot of people only realise this when they don't get the place they wanted (and never had any chance of getting)

Yes, it isn't so much choice as the ability to express a preference

Its one of those things where if it works for u it works well.

If you throw in poor schools, the grammar system amd faith schools you can be surrounded by schools you cant access and left with a small selection of poor schools to choose from.

You have to be fairly well off alot of the time to afford a house near a good school.

It perhaps wouldn't have been so bad a few years ago but with all the new houses being built it seems to get harder and harder each year.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves I'm not saying our system is the best, as you say all have good and bad points. I'm just trying to understand better.

@TeenPlusCat I think you would need to be more specific in your question. I mean like most things in TV and movies some bits are realistic and some are not (I grew up watching the TV Show Fame and would have loved if my school broke out in song and dance in the hallways all the time LOL). Your 3 choices were all set in different decades (not sure if that is what you were asking, if school stays the same over time). And really I could only answer for schools I know. America is very big and every State is in charge of what education looks like there. One example, I grew up in one state and had to pass PE all 4 years of High School (equivalent of your Year 10 - 13) , but my sons growing up in a different state only had to pass PE 2 years to graduate. Although most are some what similar in the most basic ways.

The English population densities are off the scale compared to Scotland, let alone US.

We don't have an 'everyone to the catchment school' system as the number of pupils just won't fit in, and the schools can't be expanded because there's literally no space.

Even in Scotland there are parts of the catchment system which are creaking because they just can't accommodate all the potential pupils, and like England are looking for the least worst way to fan everone out a bit.

Also when you have a dozen primary schools within a miie (none undersubscribed) it's nice to be able to say which you'd prefer

Though New York has higher population density level than London. Does the 'everyone to the catchment school' really work there. Or perhaps it works only with bussing?

Most people in England have no choice of school and just go to their local one. I suppose the overlapping catchments are in big cities? Where we live there’s one primary in our village and one secondary in the nearest town. No choices. But of course we knew when we bought our house what schools our dc would go to and that was a big factor in choosing where to live (like most people I know with dc) so I guess we did choose but not in the way you think.

Oh OK, things I notice all high schools have:

• PA systems
• lockers in all the wide, spacious hallways
• having to 'pass' PE to graduate (as you happened to mention it)
• big emphasis on sports
• 'letter' jackets for sports players who 'letter' in the sport
• 'homecoming'
• 'homecoming' kings & queens

@TeenPlusCat

Oh OK, things I notice all high schools have:

• PA systems
• lockers in all the wide, spacious hallways
• having to 'pass' PE to graduate (as you happened to mention it)
• big emphasis on sports
• 'letter' jackets for sports players who 'letter' in the sport
• 'homecoming'
• 'homecoming' kings & queens

PA systems: Yes to PA Systems and morning announcements

Lockers: I would assume all schools have lockers. As for the wide spacious hallways it depends on the school. Of course for "filming purposes" they would need to be wide and spacious

Pass PE: I dont know the requirements of all States but the ones I do the answer is Yes. But the amount changes by State

Sports: HUGE emphasis on Sports (especially American Football)

Letter Jackets: Definitely a real thing

Homecoming: Yes, it's usually tied into a big Football game where you play your biggest rival and they do elect "Kings, Queens and Court"

So I guess the answer is Yes you have pretty much summed up American High School Life

Northern Ireland and I like our system. We have tests in p7 (last year of primary, aged 10/11) and kids then transfer to grammar or non-selective. I think this is good for social mobility, and although it definitely doesn't cancel out the effects of a chaotic home life, i think it does help because it's fairly normal to go to a grammar school. There are issues with over-subscription in some parts of the country like in certain areas an A doesn't guarantee you'll get in to grammar but in other places you can walk in with a B. And our school system is still basically segregated by religious denomination- anyone can, and does, go but I'm my opinion they're not always welcome. Distance is rarely a criteria in school admissions. People just travel to the school of the type they want (grammar, non selective, Catholic, protestant....)

One region of Northern Ireland selects for grammar at age 14- everyone transfers to junior high for 3 yrs then on to either senior high or grammar. I've no experience of this.

I've more questions whilst you're here

SATs for entry to university.
They are basically gigantic multiple-choice tests on a wide range of subjects, which you can retake to get a higher score, and the score plus personal statement is what gets you in? So is there one curriculum everyone follows throughout the country so everyone takes the same test?

But then there are additional special tests for law (Legally Blonde coming into play now) and 'pre-med' and things? These are subject specific and still multiple choice or are they essays?

You have 'community colleges' which are local universities, but then bigger more prestigious ones that you can go to direct if you do well enough?

I get the impression that for 'Homecoming' a lot of ex pupils also go along to the match?

user1471 Do you think it would be better if there were 'forced' mixing of religions at high school, even if people had to travel more? To me no doubt very naively, it seems as if there might be more trust / communication if the younger generations got to know each other and become friends.

@TeenPlusCat

SATS or ACT (some places do one or the other and some do both) most Colleges (which is the same as a University, just smaller but not "less prestigious") and Universities want you to include your SAT or ACT score in your application. It is a multiple choice test on Maths and English (not sure if ACT has more subjects, my area of the country does SATs). That is not the only thing they go by though. You need to submit your transcript of your grades while in High School. You answer an Essay question(s) on the application. You get Letters of Recommendation from teachers. Obviously there are schools that are much harder to get into then others. I dont think all schools in America follow the same curriculum, but assume there are obviously similarities (especially when it comes to Maths). As for special tests for Law and Medicine I'm not sure for Pre-Law and Pre-Med but once you get through the first 4 years of that I'm sure there are tests to get into Law School and Med School.

Community Colleges
These are 2 year schools (regular college and university is 4 years). You get what is called an Associates Degree when you graduate from these. They are easier to get into and much cheaper (some states if you are a resident of that state for a certain amount of time prior you can go for free). Community Colleges also tend to have a lot of "older students", people who have decided to go back to school. Some use it as a stepping stone to a 4 Year College (get the first two years, then transfer) some just stop with the Associates Degree.

Homecoming
A lot of this depends where you are. They tend to be a much bigger deal in the Southern States (where football is also a much bigger deal). But yes Alumni (former students) coming to the Homecoming Football Game is a thing. There is also usually Homecoming Dance. I dont know of Alumni going to that, that is usually just for current students and their dates.

Really numpty question, but what is 'homecoming'?

(Vague memories of 'Daydream Believer' and never quite knew what it was)

@RancidOldHag Homecoming usually encompasses a big Football Game, Voting in Homecoming King, Queen and Court, a Dance. It is called "homecoming" because like mentioned by @TeenPlusCat Alumni of the school (former students) come back "home" to watch the game. So its like a big reunion. But how big of a deal it is depends a lot on where you are. I'm in the Northeast of the country and its not as huge a thing here as it is in South. We still have the football game, the "royal court", the dance; but I'm not sure how popular it is for former students to return. I've never actually gone to one of my High Schools homecomings after I left. My oldest son did go to one of his but that is because he was in the Marching Band (who play in the stands during the game and then perform on the field at half time) and he wanted to visit other band members who were still in school.

Thank you!,

So they be any time of year that the school chooses?

Or is it colleges/universities rather than schools? Or both?

What does a Homecoming Queen actually do?

@RancidOldHag they are usually in the Fall (that is when Football Season starts). High Schools do them and I'm pretty sure it's a thing for Colleges and Universities too (or at least some of them). I think the College/University ones are more about the big Football Game (dont think they have dances, but I could be wrong) and probably a bigger deal for Alumni returning. I only really know about High School ones though. The Homecoming King, Queen and Court is basically "a popularity contest". The kids vote for who they want to win. So King and Queen are usually the most popular boy and girl at school and the Court are the runner ups. What do they do? Well, they wear a sash and a crown and know they are very popular LOL. Some places have a parade for Homecoming and they would ride a float and wave at people. It's all pretty silly really but its American Tradition at its finest LOL

Yes - I really like it (although it does depend on the area, as other posters have said). There is a choice of schools and for example some are single sex, some are mixed sex, some are more academic while others put more of an emphasis on nurturing / pastoral care, some are really sporty, one is Catholic etc. It's true that you may not get your first choice, but many people do (not all).

OP, under your system, what happens if a child is unhappy or being bullied? Is there any possibility of moving schools?

I'm not sure whether people will see this as a plus or negative for our Catchment system... 29/31 of the pupils in DDs Yr6 class are going to the same Secondary. Then one is going Private, and the other has moved several miles away and will go to school where he lives now.

Having gone to Secondary knowing no one (London), this does seem really positive for DD and I'm sure will make the transition easier.

Yes I like our system.

Our 'local' school... still 40 minutes away... is 'needs improvement' and not one I would choose for my child.

Our system allowed me to sit DD for 'scholarships' in her specialist area at around 6 schools and then select our top choice from the scholarships as the school we wanted for her. It's not local to us, but probably the best school for her in the SE of England.

If she'd gone to the local option, they don't even offer a GCSE in the subject.

It comes down to what you prioritise though - local friends, staying with primary friends, distance etc were not my top interests for DD. For another family those might well be the most important. Horses for courses.

@GiantSpider I can only speak on the area I am in on that topic. Part of it would depend on where you live. If you live in a small town with only one Elementary, Middle and/or High School and your child is being bullied you really dont have a choice unless you find a Private School, Home School or go VLACS (online school). If your child is being bullied though I would hope the school would deal with this situation, but I realize that is not always going to happen sadly. If you are in a bigger town/city that has more then one Elementary, Middle and/or High School you probably have more options. I work in a Middle School (grade 6-8, same as Year 7-9) , it is one of 3 Middle Schools in the city. We have some kids there on what we call "waiver". They live in the area of another Middle School but received permission to attend ours instead. All Elementary and Middle schools in the city have kids there on "waivers" (for lots of different reasons, not just bullying). Not everyone who applies for a waiver will get one, but if you have a very good reason it is usually given. Now the city has two High Schools (grade 9-12, same as Year 10-13) but waivers are not allowed at that level, so I guess you would move, go Private, homeschool or VLACS if being bullied and it not being dealt with. I live in a town that is smaller then the city I work in. My town has 2 Middle Schools but I really have no idea if they allow waivers (my son had no issues in his school so I never had to look into it). The town only has one High School though. And the school takes in kids from 6 different towns. It's a bit different then your average American High School though in that its actually a Private School. The 6 towns that send their kids there pay the tuition for their kids to go there instead of having their own High School (it also has kids there from other towns outside those 6 whose parents pay the tuition for them to go there). Being that it's a Private School it is a lot stricter then your average Public High School and is able to kick out kids who are behaving really badly (Public schools can not do that so easily here). I'm not going to pretend there is no bullying there, of course there is like everywhere but it just feels like it is dealt with better there.

I like the idea of the US/Scottish system but I feel it must surely benefit richer families? I’m not rich but I’m comfortable. We moved a year or so ago purposefully to put ourselves in good school catchments. Primary & secondary. We live in a reasonably affluent area, albeit in Yorkshire so not that posh 😂 Lots of my friends did similar in their kids younger years to place themselves in good catchments. Poorer families surely won’t necessarily have that choice..

To be fair, in my town pretty much everyone just goes to catchment schools. There isn’t that much choice, there isn’t that many schools. A lot of posters on here are in big cities where the population density is far higher. It’s low here, schools are full but there isn’t the intense competition you read about.

That system wouldn’t have suited me as I wouldn’t want my kids to go to the local school. That said I’d have moved if that was the system. Where I grew up in north wales the town has 3 schools and you pretty much go to the one closest, and all feed into the same secondary. Where I am in South London - Surrey boroughs there’s so much pressure for places. Mine got a place in one of the best secondaries in the area as they went to a feeder primary (got rid of the feeders now). I knew that and picked the primary school intentionally as I knew I intended to move out of area. So once one child got into the primary (across the road to where we lived) I knew I had secondaries sorted for him and his sister who was under 1 then. They are 14 & 17 now and the schools been fantastic. They wouldn’t have got the same education in the local secondary.