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Secondary education

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Original poster

Gdst or specialist maths 6th form - which to choose?

39 replies

CatsLikeBoxes · 28/02/2022 09:20

My dd has offers for 2 6th forms.
A free place at a gdst school (bursary and scholarship) conditional on achieving certain grades, and a place at a specialist maths school.
There are pros and cons to each. Gdst school has nicer facilities, she has a choice of A Level subjects, it's much closer, probably about 30 mins (walk + short bus ride), small classes, maybe a more school like/ nurturing experience?
Specialist school - no choice over A Level subjects, but she would choose the subjects available anyway though ideally would like a contrasting subject too. Long journey (60-70 mins) bus / train, more expensive travel costs, no real extra facilities. But presumably amazing teaching. She went to a taster morning and really liked it, but it's hard to compare.
She currently goes to a state school and I'm on a low income. She might feel out of place at a private school? I went to a gdst school too and really enjoyed my time there.

What would you do? She isn't sure.

OP posts:
AnotherNewt · 28/02/2022 11:25

I wouid go for the shorter school run.

I know that sounds boringly prosaic, but if your heart would sink at the thought of the journey for a parents evening, don't inflict it on your DC daily. And you're talking about an extra hour a day, which isn't a trivial amount. It would be worth it if you were set on the more distant school, but you're not

The GDST school is more convenient and has the subjects your DD wants.

How she gets in with her classmates is an unknown for both schools. But it'll feel easier to hang around with people after school (an important teen bonding ritual) when you don't have an hour+ travel afterwards

BumbledBee · 28/02/2022 11:33

I agree, I wouldn't consider that commute for myself, let alone my DD. I think those sort of sacrifices could possibly be made if they really wanted to and there were no great options closer, but that doesn't sound like the case here.

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 28/02/2022 11:33

Yes, it think the travelling will be a pain, especially as she's used to a half mile walk at the moment. But she seems to be thinking it'll actually be a pleasant time to listen to music and relax...

Socially - the nearer school would definitely be better as the other school attracts pupils from a huge area I think. But she's not massively sociable; she spends most of her time with 1 friend who lives nearby although she has a group of friends in school.

OP posts:
BumbledBee · 28/02/2022 11:34

And well done to your DD!

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 28/02/2022 13:40

Thank you! She was very proud and happy to get in to both schools.

I feel maybe the gdst school, but worried she would be missing an amazing opportunity at the maths school.

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 28/02/2022 13:43

I'd go for the GDST school purely as she can choose a contrasting subject and it's an easier commute

BUT do be aware that as a state school child from a low income family she may be eligible for things like contextual offers, Uniq summer schools etc that she won't if she goes to a private school, even on a free place.

DonGray · 28/02/2022 15:01

Will she be academically challenged enough at the GDST school?

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 28/02/2022 18:33

I have thought about whether there is an advantage of remaining in the state school system when it comes to university. And the maths school gets amazing results.
I wonder if it would be hard going from being top of her year, to being one of many similarly able mathematicians. Or maybe that would make it more interesting.
Shame she can't try out a few days in each!

OP posts:
AndNowNo · 28/02/2022 21:50

I'd do the train going into Waterloo for a couple of days to test the rush hour, if that's the way you're coming in. Personally I'm not a fan and did it for years as a regular commuter. The tube is no better at that time. It's very very far from relaxing. It's a squash and a squeeze and not in a good way.

I'm assuming it's the one close to Waterloo anyway.

Yes it's a wonderful opportunity but it's also a bit niche. WHS will have far more extra curricula stuff going on that's just more 'normal'. The pastoral support would probably also be very good.

And normal at 17/18 is no bad thing. She'll make some good friends for life hopefully.

We have a very mathsy DC and we've looked at this option too for later on but not sure it would be right for a variety of reasons.

However the other school does look more gritty and diverse and raw somehow. Another experience which I'm sure in other ways would be very inspiring and interesting. But couldn't that be saved for university? No need to rush...

In the end for me it's down to the journey. I'd hate to have to go on the tube every morning for over an hour door to door. It's exhausting. That's why we won't be applying for DC. I'd want them going out of London, not into it. They'll be doing that potentially for the rest of their lives anyway.

alittlebitprivateforthis · 01/03/2022 13:12

I have a dc who went to the school I think you are talking about in London.
The commute was absolutely worth it. The social life was very much based in London, but they rapidly learned how to negotiate that without issue and still have lifelong friendships from there.

It was really good for my dc to be alongside other mathematicians of a similar ability and prepared them well for university.

In terms of the curriculum, if they love maths and want to go into a STEM related subjected, then it isn't restrictive. Students go on to engineering, architecture, computing, physics and maths.

There is a good push to ensure that students also stretch themselves with their wider curriculum. DC did all sorts of activities, enrichment and trips with them. The school is hot on mental health and living a balanced life.

If worries about public transport and lateness exist, don't worry, the school are understanding about when transport goes wrong.

I've sent you a dm in case you want to talk more privately.

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 02/03/2022 20:02

She could avoid the tube by getting a train to London Bridge then another to Waterloo East then walking. It's a good idea to try it out in rush hour and see what the reality is.
She wants to go into engineering, so the maths school would be a good fit for that.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions.

OP posts:
Silkierabbit · 02/03/2022 23:47

My DD has an offer for the same maths school, loved the school and class sizes are very small there but issue is the commute for us too, even longer from here. It would absolutely be the first choice if closer or there was a way she could live closer. We are trying to find a solution but not easy especially as I am undergoing cancer treatment which will last to at least the summer. Happy to discuss via PM.

CakesOfVersailles · 03/03/2022 01:24

What are the maths results like at the GDST school you are considering? There's a huge range in GDST schools. You might get better answers posting the school names (but I understand why you might not want to do that too).

Elij00 · 03/03/2022 05:39

If it's King's Maths School, you are referring to yh it's absolutely worth it. The teaching is first class and very high quality. One of the reasons why I love it is because there are a number of late Maths Bloomers there who won't have passed the 11+ at Super Academic Grammar and Private schools if they took it then but came into their own much later on.

If you want a well rounded school, then The GDST is probably the better choice as not only is the subject s of choice incredibly narrow, extracurricular activities is pretty much non existent apart from the odd Friday afternoon sports event. Then again that's not what it set out to achieve when it first opened. It's objective was to get more pupils from working class and unprivileged backgrounds with a flair for maths studying it more In depth in college and at University level and it does this quite well.

In your shoes, I'd check the GDST School in question has a sizeable amount of Girls not only taking but passing with High grades the subjects your DD will be taking at Alevels. If that is the case, then it's a no brainer considering the extra journey time required. Lastly you won't be getting any Contextual offers as they do cherry pick the brightest pupils even if many do come from low income backgrounds.

AndNowNo · 03/03/2022 14:18

@Elij00 do you think late maths bloomers do exist? I'd love to hear more about that. Do you have experience of it?

Elij00 · 03/03/2022 19:11

AndNowNo

Absolutely. I don't even think, I know a few people who were pretty average at Maths at 9/10//11 who then went on to do maths heavy STEM degrees at uni.

An example is a colleague at work. Flunked His 11plus largely due to how rubbish He was at maths at that age. Realised He was actually better at maths than He thought He was due in large parts to the encouragement He got form His Year 9 maths teacher. Did well at Alevels then went on to study Maths at King's College where He left with a Second Class Upper. He is fully qualified Chartered Accountant now.

Real Maths Genius are few and far in-between especially at that young age. Most just happened to be born to the right parents who encouraged,nutured and trained them. Heck even amongst some Child Maths Geniuses you'll find it's simply just not innate ability.

Heck my favourite Mathematician Terence Tao had two parents in STEM careers. His Dad was a Paediatrician whilst His Mum is a First Class Grad in mathematics and astrophysics so little surprise the Genuis was good at maths and the sciences(btw so were His siblings).

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 06/03/2022 21:48

It is King's Maths school, yes.
@Silkierabbit how long is the commute for your dd? I hope your treatment goes well.
Covid means I'm not sure how easy it is to compare results. The results seem pretty good at the gdst school, though only 2 children took further maths last year. Also they say she'll have to do extra work to prepare for further maths as their pupils do it at gcse if they want to carry on at a level, and it's not something offered at her current school.
I guess despite the journey, I feel it would be an amazing opportunity to go to the maths school, so am torn.

OP posts:
HomeHomeInTheRange · 07/03/2022 08:55

Won’t she have her young person’s oyster for the travel?

DonGray · 07/03/2022 11:09

@HomeHomeInTheRange

Won’t she have her young person’s oyster for the travel?
On a 16+ oyster the bus is free but the train/tube aren't
AndNowNo · 07/03/2022 12:17

@Elij00 thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.

I do think there is some genetic ability for sure though. I see it in my own family in that some of us that are much more predisposed to understand maths questions than others. For some it clicks instantly, for others it's much harder to see a solution or even get your head around what is being asked.

I'm wondering where the intersection is between genetic ability and teaching and perhaps the maturity of the brain/desire to really understand, rather than have it pushed at you passively. I'm sure it's not linear but it's interesting just to think about. Having googled the matter, it seems like people do come to maths late with much more success than at school. Curious indeed!

Sorry for hijacking your post OP. I hope you reach a good decision. Whatever you choose, they are both fantastic options and your DD is going to ever so well I'm certain. Good luck. Do let us know what you decide!

HighRopes · 07/03/2022 12:52

FWIW, I was chatting with someone who has boys and girls at top 10 ranked London schools. Her take was that maths provision in the boys schools was significantly better (more stretch, stronger cohort) than in their equivalent girls schools. I don’t know how true this is, but she’s in a pretty good position to judge. I do think that numbers doing Further Maths is a good indicator - a tiny class will be good in some ways but I think the real stretch often comes from a combination of really able peers plus excellent teaching, so you want enough peers to provide that.

HoneyMobster · 07/03/2022 12:57

@HighRopes - I'd agree. DD was at one of the GDST schools and the maths teaching didn't cater for the serious mathematicians IMO. We moved her to a Co-Ed sixth form and there was a huge difference.

Madcats · 07/03/2022 13:08

Ignoring the academic pros and cons, would your daughter be happy in an "all girls" environment?

intwrferingma · 07/03/2022 13:09

Several mathematicians jumped ship to go to our regional maths specialist school when my DD was doing A levels. Their results were no better than DD's and her contemporaries. And that was at a state sixth form. In fact there were some near failures from these apparent Maths geniuses. I was very glad we weren't tempted by the flattery of a place there!

Original poster
CatsLikeBoxes · 07/03/2022 21:05

@Madcats funnily enough I didn't put her in for any exams when she was younger because all her friends were boys and I couldn't imagine her happy in an all girls environment, but now I think she might enjoy it.
@AndNowNo dd is definitely just maths-minded. I don't know how good she is, but she does just really love maths and it comes naturally to her. She's never done anything extra.

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