National Offer Day - 1st March. Anybody else anxious?

[ToxicGirl]

I feel like a woman on the edge. Am unbelievably anxious about 1st March. Made my peace a long time ago with the fact DD won't get a place at our nearest secondary (within easy walking distance) because it's so oversubscribed. All her friends and most other children from her school will go there. We live a tiny bit further away and just won't get in, particularly as I understand it's a big birth year.

Would be happy with either our 2nd or 3rd choice schools. They're further away and not as popular but we'd have got a place at them in previous years as we're in catchment and just within the distance they usually offer.

However our LA has warned of unprecedented pressure on school places this year and said that the schools are likely to be significantly oversubscribed. I'm worried that we now won't get a place at the schools that would previously have been 'bankers'. Our other preferences are too far away. We won't get a place at them. Just put them down because there was nowhere else.

There are a couple of hugely undersubscribed and really poorly performing schools in neighbouring towns within the borough. From everything I've read and from looking at Y6 leavers destination info from previous years, I'm absolutely convinced we'll be allocated one of them. They're the schools people get allocated when they only put one choice down and don't get it.

I'm so anxious about it. Can't think about anything else and am driving DH mad. Am managing to hide it from DD but know she'll fall apart on Tuesday. She's prepared to go to school without her friends but not to a completely unknown school in another area.

It's going to be a long few days...

It was pretty much a given, but always that slight worry something's gone wrong

Spoke to a parent today who was flabbergasted that we didn’t offer him a place as they live close and “the headmaster said we’d get in”. Yes if you’d applied on time you would!

When I pointed out he applied late he said he was “away”… really? You were away for 2 whole months? … and it can be done on your phone?!

Just a word of warning to anyone here for advice on next years intake… apply on time!

@AuditAngel

We didn’t get our first choice school. I am aware of 2 children that I can name that fall into a lower band that have been allocated places. Have accepted offered place and we automatically go onto waiting list (stated in LA email) .

Will also appeal as one option on the school’s appeal form is that you believe there has been a mistake in the way the admissions rules have been applied which has denied your child a place,

But, as has been said in the other threads you've posted on, you can't know exactly why they have been offered places.

For example, you don't know if they have previously been in care. You don't know if there is a compelling case on compassionate grounds. You don't know everything about them. Because it's not anything to do with you and they don't owe anybody an explanation.

There could have been a mistake, somebody could have conducted a very careful and expensive fraud - or you could be complaining about somebody who has exceptional circumstances they have chosen not to share with you when everybody's asking 'What did you get? What band were you in?'.

'It's not fair' doesn't make for a successful appeal. By all means say you think there has been a mistake, but look carefully in the policies and see if there is something else that is more useful.

Will also appeal as one option on the school’s appeal form is that you believe there has been a mistake in the way the admissions rules have been applied which has denied your child a place

It's not just that a mistake has (possibly) been made

It's also that the mistake denied your DC a place.

So, if there were indeed no non-obvious factors about the apparent anomalies you have spotted and it is a mistake, you wouid only win at appeal if your DC had been deprived of a place because of it.

If admissions reached a lower category than your DC, but somehow missed your DC out when going through his category (maybe mis-assigning him to one even lower) then yes you should win.

But if these two mysteriously jumped up the list, it would only be relevant to your DC if she were in one of the top, wo places on the waiting list (ie the two people who would have had those two places). If he's 3rd or lower, the mistake didn't deny him a place, so the appeal would fail.

@AuditAngel

We didn’t get our first choice school. I am aware of 2 children that I can name that fall into a lower band that have been allocated places. Have accepted offered place and we automatically go onto waiting list (stated in LA email) .

Will also appeal as one option on the school’s appeal form is that you believe there has been a mistake in the way the admissions rules have been applied which has denied your child a place,

I'm not clear if you are referring to admissions categories or a banding test. If the school uses fair banding, admitting children from a lower band does not mean anything has gone wrong. That is how the system is supposed to work. If, however, you mean admissions categories, that shouldn't happen assuming you are right about the category these children were in. It may be that there is something of which you are unaware that put these children into a higher category.

As Meditrina says, if a mistake has been made the crucial question is whether the mistake cost your child a place. If your child would have missed out even if no mistake had been made, an appeal relying on the mistake should fail. That is why, even if you believe a mistake has been made, you should always include arguments as to why your child will be disadvantaged if they aren't admitted.

Quite often parents appeal because other children who live nearby have been offered a place and they think this means that a mistake has been made. Sometimes children are offered a place because of reasons that other parents don't need to know about. Look at the admissions criteria for your area and look what's at the top.

@ufucoffee

Quite often parents appeal because other children who live nearby have been offered a place and they think this means that a mistake has been made. Sometimes children are offered a place because of reasons that other parents don't need to know about. Look at the admissions criteria for your area and look what's at the top.

Many people with adopted children, especially if there are no 'outward issues' keep quiet about the fact their children are adopted to other parents. So that would be an example of a child apparently being offered a place from too far away, even though in reality they would be nearly top of the list.

Alternatively they might have lied about their address (see various threads on AIBU where far too many posters seem to find it acceptable.)

The school ExitToTheLeft is dealing with has very poorly drafted oversubscription criteria. I'm sure they don't implement them as written as they have distance listed as a category ahead of some of the groups to which they want to give priority. Critically, if ExitToTheLeft's twins are in the same band, the school doesn't define how it breaks the tie on distance. It appears whoever wrote these didn't anticipate this situation. They cater for two applicants in the same block of flats (provided they are in different flats), but not two living in the same house.

@TeenPlusCat Many people with adopted children, especially if there are no 'outward issues' keep quiet about the fact their children are adopted to other parents. So that would be an example of a child apparently being offered a place from too far away, even though in reality they would be nearly top of the list. Alternatively they might have lied about their address (see various threads on AIBU where far too many posters seem to find it acceptable.)

They do keep it quiet and quite rightly. But some also know that in some areas this can guarantee a place in the school they want so will provide evidence to get the place.

If anyone thinks someone has lied to get a school place please please let your local Admissions team know. They will check it out. Some people think it's ok but it's not, and your Local Authority won't think it's ok.

They do keep it quiet and quite rightly. But some also know that in some areas this can guarantee a place in the school they want so will provide evidence to get the place.

I think you may have misunderstood me (or maybe I you?). Of course adopters provide info to the LA re their child's adoptive status since by law in England ex LAC are way up the priority list. I just meant that random other parent may not know the child is adopted, and thus may think they were incorrectly given the place.

@PRH47Bridge I hoped that you would respond, thank you for doing so.

I’m in a slightly unusual position as I know both these families. There is another child I have been told about, and yes, in that case I don’t know if there may be other factors which may mean that child falls into a higher category.

The admissions policy says in the event of oversubscription places awarded in the following order:
1, 2, 3 which is broken down into 4 subcategories and within each of the categories there are priorities such as medical/exceptional social need/EHCP/Sibling

I think it would be hard to provide reason that my daughter will be disadvantaged by the mistake. I know the allocated school has some bullying issues, but many children are happy there. This I will have to consider, I know the journey and difficulty accessing the allocated school aren’t adequate reasons.

Appreciate all the comments,

If your daughter would have got a place but for the mistake, that is a good case. You don't need to show any further disadvantage, although it is useful if you can. However, if she wouldn't have got a place anyway, the mistake is irrelevant.

None of my sons friends got the schools they wanted only 5 kids in his class got what they wanted because they have sibling link it's disgusting especially when people from the other borough have got places in our borough.

@Sweetbabydust1989 what area is that? Are you really close to a border?

@Sweetbabydust1989

None of my sons friends got the schools they wanted only 5 kids in his class got what they wanted because they have sibling link it's disgusting especially when people from the other borough have got places in our borough.

I'm afraid that is the law. The courts have ruled that a borough cannot give priority to children just because they live within the borough. If someone from outside the borough is in the same admissions category as someone inside the borough and the person outside the borough lives closer, they get priority. And if someone from outside the borough is in a higher admission category, they get priority.

AuditAngel You could query to the LA about the children you believe have jumped above yours. As in

There are the following children who I believe should not have been prioritised above mine:
Child A, Address, No sibling link, ~5.2 miles distance
Child B, Address, No sibling link, ~6.4 miles distance
Of course there may be circumstances I am not aware of, but it would put my mind at rest if you could please check. If they have lied about their address it would be discovered on checking.

If this is a 'banding' thing, presumably children from further away but in a different band can get in above yours?

If this is a 'banding' thing, presumably children from further away but in a different band can get in above yours?

That is definitely true.

@AuditAngel - I will be happy to take a look at the school's oversubscription criteria and advise if it would help. If you would like me to do that, send me a PM with the name of the school and LA involved.

I got to ring up two parents today to offer waiting list places to their children after immediate movement. Both very emotional and happy. My fave part of the job

Just a little update, had an email yesterday and the school have offered ds2 a place in the same school. There had been an issue with the LEA not putting them down as a multiple despite me ticking the correct box and them having the same name, date of birth and living at the same address
So two happy boys! I'm still a bit disappointed that we didn't get our first choice, but they are on the waiting list so we shall see what happens although now I don't think they'll want to change as practically their whole friendship group got into the same school.

That's wonderful news @ExitToTheLeft, you must be so relieved and I'm glad you didn't have to wait weeks to get it sorted.

With waiting lists, does who contacts you depend on whether the school manages the list themselves or the local authority? Didn't get first choice here and I'm wavering between being ok and desperately wanting to be offered it on the waiting list. I'm just wondering how we'd actually be told.

What a relief

@FavouriteGame I think it depends on the school, in the first offer email it said that both dc were on the waiting list for all the other schools we chose, but because I had to basically start the appeal process I was told by the LEA what positions they were for all schools.
For our 1st choice they are 40&41 for the 4th & 5th choice schools they are 243 & 244 so give the school and LEA a call and find out.

We’ve been told they won’t release waiting list info yet, I emailed to check and they won’t give anything for 4 weeks when the lists have settled down. Which I can understand I guess. But it’s going to be a long few weeks.

@Meditrina @prh47bridge and the others that gave me advice, thank you all.

This morning I emailed the school admissions office to ask about the application of the over subscription criteria to ensure that the correct information had flowed from the application, to ensure everything was correct for the waiting lists.

I just received a call from the admissions officer to tell me that yesterday they and the LEA had determined that an error had been made in her placement and I have been told she does now have a place. I will receive an offer letter from the school today by email and the LEA will be in touch with the amended offer probably next week.

I did take on board everyone’s advice and had been working on my appeal, which I now don’t need.

You are all stars, you give fantastic admissions support year after year.

@ExitToTheLeft what a relief. Great news that it's sorted after no doubt a stressful few days!

@AuditAngel - Glad its sorted.