Best Independent school for engineering - DT

[ARCHIE114]

Hi, I wonder if someone can point me in the right direction. My DS is 15 and in year 10 at an independent school in London. He seems to be very determined to get into mechanical engineering /car design, the school he is at now does not have DT per se but they do Graphic Design, that he loves and he has chosen, as one of his GCSE subjects, together with triple science and extra maths and geography, as we were told these are the best subjects, if he is thinking engineering/architecture/design. He is now considering of moving for A level, but I was trying to research what would be the schools in London or just outside that have great to DT departments, or prepare better for the universities degrees he seems to be very keen on. I do not seem to find anything like that.

Sevenoaks school has a fantastic DT department. I think there are fast trains out to Sevenoaks and also boarding.

Always worth looking at Dulwich College

Big DT department, strong in maths - generally good all round really

21 to engineering degrees according to most recent list of leavers destinations (1 of which was automotive)

2 to architecture

Thanks Lightsabre - Seven Oaks wd be brilliant also be keen for him to be in a co-ed setting but 1.40 hr each way from where we are makes it too far :(

Anothernewt - Dulwich college looks very impressive on DT - thanks - pity is boys only, I heard Alleyn is also very good for DT ?

Speaking of Lightsabres, Head of admissions at Trinity built the lightsabre for Darth Maul.
Their DT department looks fab too, as does DC. Trinity is coed for 6th form.

My DH is an automotive engineer maths and physics are the two most important things he needs. CAD can be learnt at Uni, but without really strong maths and physics the aerodynamics and torque calculations etc will be really hard.

There are very few new concepts in car designs these days it is taking bits from previous designs and cobbling them together - that's from someone at the cutting edge of car design.

Thanks this is useful . Yes I knew about maths and physics, in fact for the most competitive universities extra maths is compulsory, but for automotive I read also design and technology, that unfortunately is not taught everywhere. For example in my current son school he does graphic design -It is all very complicated and I am glad I starting looking at it early, He should do that too

Have a look at Kingston Grammar School and City of London School as well (depending on where in London you are!)

Trinity does have a fantastic DT department. It's a popular A level taken by students who go on to engineering and architecture, amongst other things.

Sixth form is co-ed, although the girls are a minority (DD is one of about 40 girls in a year of 150).

I'd call a uni with a great automotive department and see what they recommend. Coventry would be a good shout, most of the jaguar land rover design team seem to have gone there.

Really though I'm not sure DT adds any real value unless he wants to go for automotive design and suspect the time spent on coursework would distract him from getting the grades in the subjects he needs (maths and physics). He would be far better focusing on relevant work experience.

DT develops creative problem solving and analytical thought in a way that isn't done in physics and math. If you read the future of Jobs report or Deloitte's report on skills shortages, you can see that traditional 'hard' subjects are leaving massive gaps in skills/knowledge and the idea that math and physics are the only classes necessary is really quite an antiquated train of thought. If engineers and coders can't place their knowledge into the real world/actual use context then their skills are useless

@EllieNBeeb Yes but you can get that just as well from doing work experience and picking a degree with a high level of lab work, you can't get maths skills by doing DT.

Interestingly there are some new degrees coming out that are more hands on these days, I know NMITE do one and I think the MTC do some courses like that. Not sure how well recognised they'd be though.

Thanks Swgeek, he was offered a place on the waitlist at City of London, but I checked the 16 plus entry and it is about a dozen of places and I am sure will be super competitive, they do robotic and electronics more than design and technology too. And not many leavers do engineering, it maybe just a case but I think last year they only had one.

Isonthecase, I did check the requirement of automotive uni courses and for this specific branch they do ask for design and technology too, but I agree it is so much work, that it does take away time from extra maths (which is compulsory in most Uni) and physics, although he totally loves it. He does loves maths too, but with design and technology I could easily see him spending days doing it with a smile on his face and ultimately he needs to do what he enjoys too ?

Kingston and Trinity maybe a stretch too far even if for just two years

Ellie - I so agree with you on this, to spend all of your time on maths and physics at 16 seems so narrow, I feel only doing 4 subjects is so narrow too ! Car design is an important part of the equation. I would love to find a school for him, where he can really do what he loves doing and if that helps for his future career, even better, but at this stage it is not the main issue. Working experience in an industry related area, for sure is another avenue I would like to explore, simply because I know he would love every minute of it.

If it helps, a young relative of mine has just got his PhD in engineering after an undergraduate degree - marine engineering in this case. He went to a comprehensive school and did Art, Maths and Physics at A-level.

@ARCHIE114

Thanks Swgeek, he was offered a place on the waitlist at City of London, but I checked the 16 plus entry and it is about a dozen of places and I am sure will be super competitive, they do robotic and electronics more than design and technology too. And not many leavers do engineering, it maybe just a case but I think last year they only had one.

Isonthecase, I did check the requirement of automotive uni courses and for this specific branch they do ask for design and technology too, but I agree it is so much work, that it does take away time from extra maths (which is compulsory in most Uni) and physics, although he totally loves it. He does loves maths too, but with design and technology I could easily see him spending days doing it with a smile on his face and ultimately he needs to do what he enjoys too ?

Kingston and Trinity maybe a stretch too far even if for just two years

What part of car design interests him - it is a very compartmentalised industry. My DH started in gear boxes and moved into rear axles on performance cars - he has a general technical engineering degree it was the fact that he also had done mechanic apprenticeship and then his work experience being a mechanic on rally cars that got him his in to car design. His boss is an aerodynamic engineer they will work with electrical engineers (who design the electrical looms), composite engineers, fluid dynamics to develop a car. The days of a single person being responsible for a car design are long gone. Cranfield is very industry specific. Many, many people actually start their careers and n powerboats and then move into car design.

thanks! all so useful. At the moment is cars and planes in generic terms, I think he is interested in design as well as make it work, he constantly builds stuff, but I doubt he knows if its the gear box or brakes that he is most interested in - I was reading another thread on how competitive and difficult is to get into one of the good universities ...

He could consider uni in the US. To be honest, engineering programmes are huge out there. I have a friend that went to a state uni in Oklahoma, worked for the air force for his first job, then ended up at an auto co, a motorcycle company, Boeing, and then Daimler. The UK limits uni numbers for some ridiculous reason when there aren't even enough engineers to go around. There are affordable international programmes if you aren't fussed about uni name and just want an excellent education

how competitive and difficult is to get into one of the good universities ...

It depends what you mean by good, but I know a few who didn’t quite get the requested grades at A level but were accepted anyway. Places like Southampton or Glasgow.

EllieNBeeb, We will be considering abroad actually, I agree in the UK the pressure is really tough for children, but Italy not the US. The politecnico universities in Turin and Milan have a great reputation world wide, of course you need languages. I am finding this rush to US universities a bit upsetting, it kind of suggest that there aren't good enough universities in Europe.

Thanks Snowiscold - I agree I am sure there are lots of good universities besides the ones everyone is among for

i believe that Oundle have their own engineering facility. Stowe do an Engineering BTEC in conjunction with Silverstone and are opening a big new DT dept too. I know you wanted London, but thought I would flag these up, for comparison purposes, if nothing else.

Is it really all that much of a thing for a school to specialise in specific subject[s]?

It's a state sixth form college and very competitive academically to get into, but Kings College London maths school [nr Elephant & Castle] probably attracts kids with similar interests. Maths, further maths, and physics A levels are all compulsary, and really they're the bedrock of what you need to get into most of the degree courses OP seems to be talking about. I doubt they have much by way of specialist facilities for the less theoretical aspects of design & so on.

My DDs former boyfriend went to Harrow and they really support their mechanical engineers.

We really do have first class engineering degrees here. You really cannot fault Bristol, Sheffield, Manchester, Southampton, Imperial and quite a few others for mechanical engineering. Bristol is great for aeronautical engineering. We have CEng qualifications that are recognised the world over! Unless you really like Italy there’s no huge need to go there or indeed the USA.

I’ve just been talking to a friend about the issue of schools not remotely understanding engineering. My DH is a structural and civil engineer but at school they did Engineering A level. This involved making things and solving problems. By allowing this subject to become less academic we have done a disservice to our young engineers. They do all think it’s about maths! What they don’t do is think as engineers. DH had some lessons in the engineering dept at a university taught by a well known professor! He also did a short course in Architecture: all arranged by the school. Their monorail Engineering project was a finalist for Young Engineers of the Year. Sadly all this has disappeared and all we do is maths and physics and think that’s good enough for engineers. It isn’t. You have to understand the problem before you can solve it! All the maths in the world won’t necessarily lead to the right solution if you haven’t understood the problem!

Warwick has automotive engineering and Jaguar Land Rover used to support that department. Much higher regarded than Coventry. Look at Southampton, Loughborough and possibly Bath.,

Your son might also want to consider applying for an Arkwright Engineering Scholarship, details here:
www.arkwright.org.uk/about-arkwright/about-arkwright

Thanks both and all really, lots of really useful information.
TizerorFizz : I agree is not just about maths and physics and this is why I was keen to find the schools which see DT as complementary subject to maths and physics for children who are interested in engineering. After all building a car or a computer must be useful ! Italy is appealing to me as I am Italian. My son speaks it fluently and I think it would be a great experience to study there, the life style and so on. We do have great industries there too, Ferrari Lamborghini and Alfa just to name few. Ferrari has apparently some internship, that while very competitive seems to then open lots of doors. Also we do not have these impossible entry bars, while we loose possibly half of the course students after the first year of UNI especially for the most difficult faculties, at least that is based on a year of study, so if the children drop out is because they are probably not suited to this type of study not because they are not fast at filling tests sheets .....

@ARCHIE114
If you are Italian that’s very different.

A friend of DDs did Mech E at Bristol did a year abroad at a Grande Ecole. I’m not sure if the universities have links with Italy? I wasn’t saying Italy is not great but their standard unis are well down international rankings. Even the best known ones. Technical ones might be different. DD studied in Italy as part of her year abroad. As you are Italian you will know that most students live at home and it’s a different experience to UK universities.