English baccalaureate?

[Desert76]

How important is it to do the English baccalaureate at GCSE?

Dd wants to choose 2 languages (German and French) and philosophy and religion as his options.
Apparently RE doesn't count and he needs to choose geography or history as his humanities choice.

DD likes history but not as much as the other three, and she'd have to drop one.
School is able to timetable this choice, but have advised to do the English baccalaureate if she can?

Not sure whether to encourage Dd (my initial instinct) or whether not doing the English baccalaureate will damage future prospects.
Is it just a meaningless tick box exercise or actually really important?

Do they get a choice? I didn’t think they could or put if the school offered it.

At this age it doesn’t matter but I would be concerned about narrowing their options for A levels a bit and ultimately university if they start “specialising” so early.

The English bacc is important for the school because the percentage of pupils obtaining the EBacc is one of the columns in school league tables.
It makes no difference for individual pupils at all. Obtaining the best grades that she can is most useful for future prospects.

Yes, there's a choice.

I don't see it's particularly "specialising".

Actually I did a history degree and DH geography, so we realise how important these subjects are, but we're not Dd. Presumably RE is just as rigorous.

If it's just for the sake of the school that's an easy decision!

*56catndogslife

The English bacc is important for the school because the percentage of pupils obtaining the EBacc is one of the columns in school league tables.
It makes no difference for individual pupils at all. Obtaining the best grades that she can is most useful for future prospects.*

This is my understanding too. I'm guessing your DD is bright (from 2 language choices) and therefore the school want her to contribute to the league table results. She needs to do what she is going to do well in for herself. I'm assuming with that set she might be into the whole philosophy side anyway in which case religion is a good pairing!

Not at all important for your DC. Much more important that they choose subjects they enjoy.

Yep not at all important for your DD. Also agree, I don't see how choosing RE over history is specialising at all. IME RE should be on the list fir the exact anyway, if it continues to be used as a measure, which it shouldn't. Several of DS2's mates got 2 or 3 or 4 in Spanish when made to take it. Hardly helpful fir anyone - and MFL is my subject. Well done to your dd for choosing two 👏

Haha on the list for the ebacc

She still hasn't made up her mind , thank you for all the advice. Or rather she had made up her mind and changed it again several times.

Bit worried people thinking she is bright etc because of the two language choices. She just really enjoys them both. She is in top set for French and that's why she was allowed to start doing German as well in year 8, most people just do one or the other, but I'd say she is a solid hardworking 'B' student rather than any sort of genius.

Hoping continuing the two languages aren't a bad idea. Both DH and I did 2 back in the day, and feel 2 is easier than one because you are practising all the same skills just with two different languages. And she is really set on carrying on both.

RE well taught is a great subject and should count as a humanity. Sadly it doesn't.

Your DD needs to think about what she wants to do with her future - the EBacc is irrelevant here, she has to play to her strengths and her interests for the future.

The only thing I would say is that the grade bounday for good grades in MFL is usually set really high - DD2 got an 8 in French but had to get some pretty epic scores to get there. For History and Geography she got 8 and 7 but % wise didn't have to score as many marks out of the total. On the other hand History and Geography are incredibly content heavy and you really need to be interested to do well in them.

We've had some excellent students with straight 9s who didn't do the English Bacc because they chose RS/Latin/Music instead of History or Geography. Choosing Languages and RS isn't limiting her options going forward and they are respected courses. EBAcc is a measure for schools not students. I'd let her choose what she wants!
I am still perplexed by how they selected the subjects that would 'count' for it.

I am still perplexed by how they selected the subjects that would 'count' for it.

I think they thought of the subjects taught at Eton.

I agree RS should count as a humanity but there should also be other subjects, sociology or other social science, some form of general studies.

OP

The top private schools in the UK often enter students for 'international GCSEs these do not count towards the ebacc.

@sashh I also agree about RE/RS, but not with this:

there should also be other subjects, sociology or other social science, some form of general studies

Most schools don't offer sociology GCSE IME and I certainly don't think there is any need to take it as well as history/Geog/RS. It's tough to get through the GCSE subjects anyway without adding in general studies. Maybe if those were alternatives to the other humanities (actually that's probably what you meant! as you were :)

Isn't the English Bacc another of Michael Gove's precious gifts to us?

As a Music teacher, it pisses me off no end to see bright and talented kids being pushed towards EBacc subjects so the school hits some utterly meaningless target. Thankfully, my Head is more enlightened or gives zero shits about the target. For the first time ever, in year 10 we actually have 2 GCSE Music groups.

These obsessions with how kids and what kids should be taught since Gove's so-called reforms have been nothing but a giant PITA. They are hastening my departure from the profession. I love my job. I love working with the kids, engaging them, watching them develop and even enjoying their company. However, the relentless eroding of my subject by politicians and unenlightened Heads is soul-destroying.

OP, support your DD in studying whatever she wants.

I would support her to do the subjects she wants to do. If her school is anything like ours, they have so many compulsory subjects that they don't actually get that much choice and by default will end up with a broad education whether they do the Ebacc subjects or not.

Here they get 9 "choices". But that include 5 compulsory subjects, at least 1 more Ebacc subject and "free" choice for their final 3 options.

These 3 free choices can be made from a list of 20 different subjects (It is a really big school). Why offer so many options if you think everyone should just do the EBacc subjects?

Remember this cohort of year 9's haven't had even one year of uninterrupted secondary schooling yet due to COVID. Let her choose what she wants!

[quote clary]@sashh I also agree about RE/RS, but not with this:

there should also be other subjects, sociology or other social science, some form of general studies

Most schools don't offer sociology GCSE IME and I certainly don't think there is any need to take it as well as history/Geog/RS. It's tough to get through the GCSE subjects anyway without adding in general studies. Maybe if those were alternatives to the other humanities (actually that's probably what you meant! as you were :)[/quote]
Yes that's what I meant. An old flat mate took 'Classical studies' many years ago, it was a mix of ancient history and Greek / Roman folk law.

I think it's 'Classical Civilisation' now and looks really interesting, it's such a shame the ebacc limits children, I know the idea is to have a 'broad' general education but in reality it just funnels most students in to the same limited subjects.

And it is worse for students who are good at arts subjects because you can't usually take 3 'arty' GCSEs but if you are good at science you can do at least 3, sometimes 4 sciences.