Richmond State Secondary Schools

[Squarebean]

Our family is moving into the Richmond area, from overseas, in June 2022. I am aware that we can only apply for a place for our Year 9 son once he is residing in the area. At that point, we will be offered a place based on space available or distance to school criteria. In the meantime, our eldest is completing his GCSEs and has applied to some Sixth Forms and received conditional offers. Should we accept all the offers, then see which he gets into on August 25th and then hope to get our youngest into that same school, based on sibling priority? Or should we do an in-year application for our youngest when we arrive in June and then take a place for him, depending on what is available? But bearing in mind, if we rent as close as we can to our first choice school for both of them, neither may get in. Has anyone navigated this successfully? Ideally we would like to have both our boys in the same school so they could travel together or I go take them if need be. Thoughts and advice most welcome. Also, what is the feeling about Teddington High and Sixth Form as well as The Kingston Academy, Turing House and Grey Court.

Hi Squarebean, I’m not sure all secondary schools have a sibling policy, so that might be worth checking? I would say yes to accepting all 6th form offers - there’s lots of movement once results are announced and final choices are made and you have nothing to lose. As far as I can tell there’s a lot more flexibility for 6th form than in-year places, so might be worth focussing on your younger child in terms of location. Have you also considered Orleans and Esher college (although latter 6th form only snd may be too late?). Public transport for all these schools is good, so most pupils are not driven, I don’t think it would be an issue to have children at different schools. Turing house is moving to Hospital Bridge Road location in February so that might be too far. No externally marked exam results yet, so bit of a leap of faith but all pupils and parents I know are very happy with the school. Ditto Greycourt, which has a great reputation and seems to do very well for 6th formers. A fair number of Teddington school pupils leave for grey court and Esher 6th form but I know many who have stayed and done very well. No direct or indirect knowledge of Kingston academy, but I know it has a good reputation. If you are planning to move near the school, each of these areas has a very different feel. Might be worth posting with area in title and on local board for more responses.

At their ages they definitely won’t want you taking them to school or College and they will both be fine travelling on their own so I wouldnt worry about them going to the same school. Orleans is the best school in the area so I would just rent as close as possible and hope for the best. Have you called to see how long the waiting lists are for different schools?

You may want to check with Richmond Council but where I live (South East London), sibling priority doesn't extend to sixth form, it ends once oldest child enters Yr11.

Just a word of warning - check that the LEA where you're moving to will process applications made in June or later. We had a two WEEK delay in getting a school place having applied after we were resident in our new city (as per instructions/rules) and massively fell foul of this. Caused no end of problems.

Thank you for all the info and advice. I have heard back from the Richmond School Admissions that our younger son will be given sibling priority if/when our eldest is on a roll at one of the Sixth Forms. Though that would mean our youngest would possibly be delayed in starting, until our eldest is enrolled. Does it all boil down to moving as close to a school as one can, but then accepting a place at another, if there is no space at one's first choice?

Richmond borough is a fantastic area for secondary schools (and primary) so you can't go too wrong wherever you base yourself. As PPs have said, it might not be necessary to have both your boys at the same school - although I get that they might prefer to be together. You can call/email the schools that you're targeting to see if they have spaces for your year 9 child (and also how long their waiting lists are), and that should give you an idea of how realistic a place is. I would definitely accept all the sixth form places offered to your oldest at this stage; you have nothing to lose, and it gives you more flexibility and time for the decision-making. A lot of DC move schools between GCSEs and A-levels so it's a good time to apply (and probably easier to find a sixth form place than a year 9/10 place).

One of the PPs said "Orleans is the best school in the area". I'm not sure what this is based on? But if you're looking at this through the criteria of public exam results, Grey Court has the highest A-level results in the borough, aside from the independent schools. Grey Court also has amazing large grounds (it's very sporty) and a new sixth form centre.

You can obviously also access Tiffin and The Kingston Academy, both in Kingston borough, from the Ham / Petersham area. The Kingston Academy doesn't yet have results data as it's fairly new (and then Covid) but parents I know with DC there really rate the teaching and ethos.

As PPs have said, it would be unusual for parents to drop/pick up their children at secondary school; in any case, the public transport is generally good.

As an aside, you might want to amend your post to include 'Richmond' in the title so that more people read it.

Good luck with your decision-making OP!

I would apply for your son as soon as you are able and then update with sibling priority if needed. Sibling priority will put you at the top of the waiting list but if there is no place, you still won't be offered a place. You can of course appeal, but that will take time. So waiting until your oldest starts may be delaying for no reason.

I wouldn't worry hugely about being right next to your preferred school. That would be relevant for year 7 admissions, but later on it is more about a space being available. Of course if you have a strong preference for one school, then being nearer will put you higher up the waiting list, but it's a bit redundant if no space comes up. So no harm in moving near your preferred school, but also consider moving somewhere on decent bus routes etc to widen your options.

Is your son in year 9 now, so year 10 in Sept? If that's the case, I would be inclined to take whatever space you are offered and not worry too much if it's not the same school as his brother, as you really want him to start on time.

@farfromthemadding according to compareschools.gov Orleans has slightly higher attainment 8 for gcse and a slightly higher score for 16-18 performance too but again there wasn’t much in it at all. It does look like grey court had a higher percentage of A and A* results. I think they are both fantastic schools.

I really appreciate all of your advice. It is super helpful. I am thinking of finding our family residence between Grey Court and Kingston Academy with the hope of getting our sons into either. Does that sounds feasible for being close close enough to two school so if distance to school is applied for their applications, they will have a good chance for either? What’s the vibe like in that area/those neighborhoods? South Ham/North Kingston? Are they on bus routes or could the boys use bicycles to get to school.
(Not sure how to add Richmond to post title, could someone advise please?) Thank you

Hi Squarebean,

See this document (section 4): www.richmond.gov.uk/media/3066/secondary_admission.pdf

It shows the distance of the furthest place allocated for children entering year 7 at each school. However, it might be better to call the schools individually to find out if they actually have year 9/10 places; and if not, how long is the waiting list and generally how often places tend to come up.

Ham and Petersham is a lovely area. More information here: hamandpetersham.com
www.visitrichmond.co.uk/ham-petersham.aspx

The bus routes are 65, 371 and K5. Lots of cyclists (and horses!).

Good luck!

For out of year places you may need to be closer than that so i would be inclined to pick one or the other and move close close to it or you may never get your year 9 in. I looked at waiting lists for year 8 last year and my nearest good school in this area had a waiting list of 80 kids even in year 8 (which is the current year 9 group.) it was a massive birth year here so all schools are very over subscribed. Have you spoken to either school to find out how long their lists are. Good luck.

@Squarebean you need to read the admissions policies on the school websites, because they're all different. Some don't allow a sibling link with the sixth form and some do. I know Turing House does.

Don't be sucked in to assuming Ofsted Outstanding schools are always better than Ofsted Good schools. The grades are just a snapshot from a short visit. The Ofsted inspection framework also changes from time to time, so schools aren't always measured on the same things. It has changed very recently, and become tougher to get Outstanding, so a lot of schools across the country are being downgraded. Schools that have been Outstanding for a while are sometimes at the crest if a wave that's about to break - so watch out for long-serving Headteachers who retire before that happens!

Teddington School had an Ofsted visit recently, so look out for the report being published soon. Fingers crossed it will be Good - parents seem happier with it then a few years back.

I must be honest I really don't get why you are bothered about them going to the same school at their ages.

Sixth forms are usually quite separated so they won't ever interact at school. Also id say literally all secondary children make their own way to school so you don't need them to be at the same school for that either.

My children go to different secondary schools by choice and I can say it has never been an issue!

Forget living near in order to be higher up a waiting list. You need the schools to have vacancies. The last thing a year 10 kid needs is to be sitting on a waiting list or waiting for an appeal date.

As others have said don't worry about them both being at the same school, the oldest needs to be somewhere that best suits their plans, not somewhere he can travel to with his sibling.

And the youngest needs any school with a vacancy. Can you phone the schools direct and see if they have vacancies in yr 9 now? And any that do keep your fingers crossed they'll still be spaces in June.

@titchy

Forget living near in order to be higher up a waiting list. You need the schools to have vacancies. The last thing a year 10 kid needs is to be sitting on a waiting list or waiting for an appeal date.

As others have said don't worry about them both being at the same school, the oldest needs to be somewhere that best suits their plans, not somewhere he can travel to with his sibling.

And the youngest needs any school with a vacancy. Can you phone the schools direct and see if they have vacancies in yr 9 now? And any that do keep your fingers crossed they'll still be spaces in June.

But he's in year 9 not year 10, and moving in June, which is significant because there's often movement at the end of year 9. Its the boundary between key stage 3 and key stage 4, so some people see it as a good time to move schools. A few children go to Studio schools (for 14+), which creates vacancies. True that you won't know where the vacancies ate going to be until July, but I think its a pretty safe bet that most schools will have at least one, which will go to whoever is at top of the wsiting list, and each move might create a vacancy in another local school, so there's a knock-on effect.

You won't be without a place at all because some schools won't full in that year group - Twickenham School and Teddington are probably safe bets - and if the school isn't full that means there's no waiting list and you can live as far away as you like.

@Squarebean

I really appreciate all of your advice. It is super helpful. I am thinking of finding our family residence between Grey Court and Kingston Academy with the hope of getting our sons into either. Does that sounds feasible for being close close enough to two school so if distance to school is applied for their applications, they will have a good chance for either? What’s the vibe like in that area/those neighborhoods? South Ham/North Kingston? Are they on bus routes or could the boys use bicycles to get to school. (Not sure how to add Richmond to post title, could someone advise please?) Thank you

You need to use the "Report" link under the tree dots at the bottom of you original post to ask the Admin to change the title.

*three dots not tree dots

Thank you all.. I’ve also updated the title of this post.
So my husband and I felt it would be good to get our boys into the same school because, since we are coming from overseas, and even though Sixth form is separate to Secondary, it may provide a psychological support for them, knowing their sibling is nearby.

There are currently spaces at Teddington, Twickenham and Richmond Park Academy (in Year 9). This may change by June and we will need to see how things stand once we are residing in the area. If something opens up at Grey Court and distance to school puts us at the top of the waitlist (currently over 300) then we would enroll our youngest immediately. Otherwise we would need to consider accepting an available space at one of the aforementioned schools, or wait until our eldest is on a roll at Sixth form. The sibling priority would then apply (I have checked and confirmed this with the school admissions) but that may delay our younger son’s start, who will then be entering Year 10 in Sept.

Our eldest also has a conditional offer at Kingston Academy who have 84 on the Year 9 waitlist, 2 siblings. If our eldest gets in there, I’ve confirmed there would be a sibling link there for our youngest. But again, that would delay his start.

The questions that come to mind are:

• has Teddington school improved since its 2018 Ofsted rating? When will the new inspection results be shared? Our eldest has a conditional offer for their Sixth Form, what are your feelings or experiences about their Sixth form?
• Out of the three (Teddington, Twickenham and Richmond Park Academy), which are improving most, have the best reputations/best leadership? any input and first hand experiences appreciated.

I would choose Teddington from those three. I would expect the next ofsted report to be better. Their results and progress are both good. Twickenham has a poor reputation locally ime. I don’t know much about Richmond park academy though. Teddington A level results look pretty solid. Tedding always used to be a highly regarded school, I expect it will come back up.

All Richmond secondaries are good schools these days (wasn't true in the past). RPA is further away from me so I don't know it well. Twickenham has only recently got a Good rating after a very long history of under-performance, and so some people will always be snobby about it, but it has lots of support from current parents and a very dedicated Head. My daughter's boyfriend is at Teddington Sixth Form and he and his friends are doing well. Is size important? Teddington is very big (240 in each year) but I think Grey Court is too. Down-sides of that are obvious but on the up-side it might mean there are more clubs and activities to choose from.

Some Teddington children commute across Teddington Lock to Grey Court, so if you locate yourself near Grey Court, and don't get a place, the journey to Teddington School should still be ok.

Teddington have just announced that their new Ofsted rating is Good. See their website here: www.teddingtonschool.org/#
So that means all Richmond Borough's secondary schools are now officially Good or better.

Hello Everyone
I have recently moved to the UK and currently residing in Ham (Richmond) area. My daughter is on a waitlist for Kingston Academy and at Tiffin Girls School. For Tiffin School I know the wait is much longer as she will need to give an entrance exam which has been scheduled for 1st Dec as of now. Kingston Academy she is on top in the list but still not sure how long the wait will be. Meanwhile, we have been offered a space at Grey Court school - I would sincerely appreciate an honest feedback about this school? How are the teachers? Is it a good mix of students? Academically do they pay attention to the children? Etc Etc
I'm very apprehensive and want her to have a good and healthy experience especially with such a big change. It's not been easy. I took this house especially to be 7 mins away from Kingston Academy and yet have been on waitlist - have approached Richmond and Kingston Council , written emails to schools etc but we will just have to wait it out. So i just want to know if Grey Court School is a good option to put her in meanwhile. Thank you

Yes, Grey Court is a very good school.
What year group is she going into? Year 7 or another year group?

She will be going into Year10. I heard it has improved over the years.

I don't remember it being anything other than Ofsted outstanding and very popular.