11+ or 13+ for boys

[11or13]

Hi, I’m sure this has been asked before but wanted to ask recent experiences of choosing whether to send boys to senior schools at 11 or 13. Any advice, regrets, things we might not have thought of?

DS is currently Y5 at prep school and we have to decide a) what schools to apply to and b) whether to go at 11 or 13.

He’s academically very capable, CATs around 133, so will likely go to quite a selective school. Our focus is on day schools, probably quite big ones, and we are wondering about advice on going at 11 v 13. Most seem to take around 15% of their total intake at 13.

Some of the benefits of going at 11 we’ve heard include:

• Better socially to settle when everyone starts at 11, also good to get into sports teams etc
• More diverse and engaging curriculum as not restricted by need to study for CE, good for children who enjoy learning
• Better teaching as secondary teachers more equipped to deal with older children than prep
• No need to take another stressful set of exams at 13
• Broader range of facilities, clubs, teams and activities to get involved in before the hard work for GCSEs set in around Y9 (most of the clubs at our prep school aren’t great tbh)
• Avoid the “big fish / small pond” syndrome that sometimes happens at preps when they outgrow the school

Benefits of going at 13:

• Better for late bloomers (DS is not one of these, he’s doing really well now) especially as tend to stay in small groups for longer
• CE a good chance to develop exam skills
• Entrants into day schools at 13 often well academically prepared so go into top sets etc
• Opportunity to be “top of the school” at prep school with responsibilities eg head boy, common room, prefects etc
• Keeps them a little more nurtured for longer
• Easier to get a place as less people applying

We’d welcome any suggestions. Of course we’ve talked to the school but they are very pro boarding and pro Common Entrance, as you’d expect for their business model, so to be honest I find it hard to believe they completely have our interests at heart. They are very anti 11+ and in many cases anti-day schools as a result.

Thanks in advance for any help that people can give!

As previous posters have said, many of the differences between 11+ and 13+ transfer are a double-edged sword and depend a lot on the individual child in question.

A good prep won't mollycoddle Y7s and 8s, but will gradually foster more independence and personal responsibility. Yes, plenty of children will be starting to outgrow a prep by the end of Y8, but moving on to senior school more than ready for the transition to the next stage isn't necessarily a bad thing (and may be better than moving too young and being overwhelmed by the change).

DS1 did find that some of the work in Y9 repeated the CE curriculum (particularly in Latin, which was covered almost up to GCSE level at his prep), but this was an advantage - it meant that he could focus on settling into a new school, finding his feet in a new peer group, getting used to a much larger campus, trying new sports and clubs, etc in Y9 without the added pressure of struggling with the academic work as well.

CE is a funny thing. In the last, it served the purpose of an assessment vehicle for senior schools and a motivation to schools and students to keep working hard. Those doing CE often achieved a higher level of factual knowledge, although less skill-based learning than perhaps most senior schools were using as they geared up towards GCSEs.

So CE came to be seen as a bit old fashioned in terms of its content heavy focus, plus as more schools took students in at 11, less did it. Additionally, as more and more 13+ schools pre-test in yr6, CE came to no longer serve its original purpose. Students already had their offers. CE could be used to keep schools and students motivated, but if it didn’t determine who got places of entry, then it often felt a bit pointless, especially as lots of senior schools increasingly ignored it or didn’t want to have anything to do with it - it was them after all that marked it and they did t want to if it served them no purpose.

So some Preps kept going with CE anyway because they had to teach something, and other ps have adopted a new curriculum for Yr7 and 8 which is perhaps more like the senior schools teach and involves more skills and and a bit less content than before….something more modern.

The question becomes, what are Preps actually doing and offering? What are they prepping for in Yr 7 and 8? Really, it’s not prepping for senior entry exams, as these have already been taken and places offered. Is it about offering leadership and extra curricula opportunities of being a big fish in a small pond? Yes, you can be a Prefect etc as a Yr7/8 in Prep which you can’t when you’re the bottom of the senior school. Is it about staying young and being kept away from the older kids and the influences that some might not like? Is it about giving them longer to be younger and especially if they aren’t so mature, to enjoy more time as children?

Yes, the latter things are delivered by good Preps.

On the academics, teachers in Preps can be really good and can deliver senior school level education. Some teachers will have taught in Senior schools but most haven’t. The Prep teachers might be more tuned into 11-12 year olds and as they are top of school, might make them their priority. On the other hand, teachers in Senior schools arelikely to teach GCSE and A Level and so perhaps are more attuned to gearing up kids towards public exams which are coming next. However, the Yr 7 and 8 might not be their highest priority as the ‘little ones’ but instead the exam classes more their key focus.

In the end, I think the key is recognising changes that are happening and also knowing where your lcoal Preps and Senior schools fit within those. I agree that entering Senior school when most do is worth it for most, although as PP say, there are a,ways children who don’t fit the norms and you have to know your child. What is certainly the case is 13+ Preps will want to keep you. They will emphasise what Preps can offer in terms of leadership opportunities and finishing a full Prep education before moving on. They will play down the current trends towards 11+ entry and of course, their survival as 13+ rather than 11+ schools relies on parents continuing to choose to stay on.

If you think your child would benefit a lot from stating I the smaller environment and they’re not ready for Senior school for a range of reasons, it might be a good choice. As you say you’re looking at day and not boarding schools, unless your child needs to remain in the smaller and younger atmosphere, or unless the fee increase is important for you to avoid for another couple of years, I’d say most (notice not all) children in most areas now, do well to move on at 11. It’s what most are doing and the direction of travel, and you can choose to go against the trend, as there are still both options, but will be in the minority in many senior schools if you do. Again, it’s thinking g about what will it be like in Yr9 and 10, rather than just what will it be like in yr 7 and 8 that’s key.

And on the GCSE options issue, lots of independents do a 3 year GCSE…that means they choose their options in Yr8, which for those in Prep means choosing before they even arrive and have been taught by the senior school staff.

@WombatChocolate some excellent points made by this poster in their recent post. They've summed up the issues very well (I suspect they work in education!).

Also a very valid point about three year GCSE options. One of my child's senior schools does exactly this which does mean, as the poster says, that students who've opted to stay at Prep for year 8 literally have to take their GCSE options having never met the teacher who will teach them for the next three years, or used the facilities in that subject at GCSE. So those teachers are completely unable to advise parents and students whether the child is a good fit for their subject at GCSE! In my opinion that is madness and a very good reason all on its own to avoid 13+ entrance if the senior school does the three year GCSE. (More are going that way due to increased demand of GCSE workload recently). Yes the prep school history teacher will tell their year 8 student they should do history...but that teacher won't know the GCSE syllabus used by the senior school in that subject and may never have taught the subject above year 8. And what about things like business studies that the senior school students will have trial lessons or assemblies on during year 8? The prep year 8 child won't be able to attend those and therefore won't be fully informed.

As I said, when my children were in middle school I was completely sold on them staying at prep til 13+.

My research led to them leaving at 11+ instead. In one case, this was overwhelmingly the correct decision and they are now thriving at senior school in a way I really don't believe they would have if they'd stayed at the Prep. Another child would have been ok with either option in theory but would have likely struggled to break into established friendships at 13+.

I agree with the previous poster that most children should move at 11+, with some exceptions, especially those for whom the senior school starts at year 9. I know the majority of those who had to stay onto year 8 for this reason at our former Prep would have moved at 11+ if only their traditional senior schools had started accepting students at that age.

@WombatChocolate this is brilliant thank you, you’ve really captured everything we are thinking about, as well as what both the prep and the senior school are saying about entry ages. I especially like your summary of what preps are really trying to achieve now, lots of it is very tempting but do thru outweigh the benefits of going with a big intake? Probably not for us. Interesting take on the CE as well, I think in our case we’d love to see DS making the most of a wealth of opportunities rather than constrained by the CE curriculum. Very interesting point about the 3 year GCSE, and thank you @ohtsmeagain, I have actually never heard of this so will look into it.