St Clement Danes (Chorleywood, Herts) vs Dr Challoners (Bucks)

[ChorSwe]

Hi all

We are parents of twins, a boy and girl, living in Chorleywood in Hertfordshire. We are looking to buy a new property, and in terms of where are thinking ahead to when we need to apply for secondary schools in a few years.

St Clement Danes in Chorleywood, Hertfordshire, seems like a good school and is in Chorleywood which we already know. Dr Challoners Grammar School (boys) and Dr Challoners High School (girls) in Amersham in Buckinghamshire look like outstanding schools, although require passing the grammar school tests. It's difficult for us to decide at this stage which we prefer so if possible we'd like to keep options open.

Does anyone know of areas on the Herts / Bucks border where you can apply to both St Clement Danes and Dr Challoners with a reasonable chance of getting into both? Or if you more or less have to choose one? Are the Dr Challoners ones more competitive than St Clement Danes so better to live in Bucks?

Does anyone have any thoughts on the respective merits of these schools? Or anything else to bear in mind when choosing between Amersham and Chorleywood? We like both places and want to live near a tube station. E.g. is HS2 going to affect Amersham much?

Kind regards
ChorSwe

You won’t get into either of the Challoners grammars unless you live in Bucks. Check out the last admitted distances on the council website admissions statistics and for the boys in particular you have to live very close to the school. Amersham School is great if the kids don’t pass the 11+ so a very popular area to live.

Clement Danes places are offered as a priority to those in the WD3 postcode and the great majority are filled on that basis and those higher up the admissions criteria.

So no, you can’t have a realistic chance at getting into both. You have to choose one or the other.

I also live in CW (and myself and my siblings all went to Challoners, back in the day when half of CW was in Bucks).

I don't know the answer on applying to both as my kids didn't make state school applications. I'm not sure whether it's possible to sit the exams before you make your choices?

In terms of your other questions, it is possible to live in CW and get a place at Challoners girls'. I haven't looked recently but I believe the boys school has only once taken out of catchment when the rules on second homes changed. Again, I don't know the latest stats but the girls school has taken out of catchment on occasions (I know someone who lives in CW/Ricky and goes there). I also know of a CW boy who goes to Chesham Grammar (started 2 years ago). The benefit of CW is that, if they do look out of catchment, it's one of the nearest places to Little Chalfont/Amersham that isn't in Bucks.

Might be worth considering Chenies which is in Bucks but very near to SCD too on a distance application. I know several kids who live in Chenies and go to SCD.

Answering your other questions, I like Amersham and I think the traffic is better than CW which can be hideous in rush hour. HS2 works haven't really affected Amersham (on the Hill) but are evident when you drive along the bypass and along to Wendover. Hopefully they will try to put it all back after construction...

Both CW and Amersham have the Chiltern line, plus Amersham has some non stopping trains to Marylebone. I'd say both places have a similar community feel.

In recent years (last two), neither of the Challoners schools have admitted children outside Bucks unless they meet one of the higher admissions categories. We are in Herts but live very close - no place for 2020 entry but plenty of Bucks children who live further away did get a place in accordance with the admissions criteria. My DC did get offered a place at another Bucks grammar school though.

Thanks all for the really helpful replies. On the bucks website it says 17 girls from herts got into dr challoners high school this year. See here:

8f6eac0f-d266-4f1b-9e95-3d6a68781a5b.filesusr.com/ugd/ab3fe9_bf13b2d5f02b433ab82e7432e0dfda96.pdf

@Zodlebud are you saying that all of these were admitted under the higher criteria, ie siblings, daughters of staff, medical needs etc? 17 like quite a lot of girls so just curious to understand.

@ChorSwe All siblings I believe.

You might get the odd one or two who got lucky in the Chorleywood / Rickmansworth area at the girls school but it is the most sought after all girls grammar in Bucks. Their admissions policy includes strict criteria on dates by when you must be resident at the address you use for application and you cannot own another property within 20 miles of the school. People can, and do, move to the area frequently just to get places and then move further out where house prices and rents are cheaper.

The only grammar school which regularly takes large numbers of children from Herts is Chesham Grammar, where they come from Berkhamsted and Bovingdon. Children who live in Chesham invariably choose the Challoners Schools over Chesham (they are in the catchment for both) so this frees up more spaces for out of county.

You can see Bucks Allocations here:

www.buckscc.gov.uk/media/4516751/allocation-profile-2021-final4.pdf

www.buckscc.gov.uk/services/education/school-admissions/admissions-policies-consultations-and-statistics/allocation-of-school-places/

@zodlebud, there are plenty of children from Chesham and Amersham at Chesham Grammar, including my own DC,
so I wouldn't agree that they 'invariably' choose Challoners High or Grammar. You are right that there are many from Herts though, especially Berkhamsted.

@LadyIckenham of course there are plenty of children from Chesham & Amersham at Chesham Grammar - not everyone wants single sex.

BUT unfortunately, many many parents are driven solely by results and getting their children into the “best” schools. The results from the Challoners schools are better, and they consistently rank in the top state schools in the country whereas Chesham appears much lower down. Pushy parents therefore are invariably choosing Challoners.

Personally I think it’s all rather arbitrary but you just have to read the numerous posts on the 11+ forum with “education tourists” to see how much the Challoners schools are in demand. I also much prefer Chesham as it doesn’t feel hot housey and has a far more relaxed feel to it.

@Zodlebud, I think it depends what you are looking for. I totally agree that CGS feels less of a hot house and my DC are very happy there. We are nearer to both challoners schools but I was very pleased when they preferred CGS. It is surely about finding the right school for each child rather than the school than achieves the best results for a year group. Ultimately, I want my children to be happy, enjoy life and reach their potential, rather than worrying where their school is in a league table.

@LadyIckenham I totally agree and wish more parents would spend time looking for the school of best fit for their DC rather than simply the ones with best exam results.

I know of several children who were heavily tutored to pass the 11+, just scraped through, got an offer from Chesham based on location but parents appealed for places at the Challoners schools, sometimes with success and sometimes not. It was all consuming for their parents that their DC HAD to go to Challoners and no other grammar would do. Totally missing the point that Chesham has a wider range of subjects available at GCSE like Engineering.

Sorry OP we have gone off tangent a bit here but it’s relevant. Look at whether the schools you are interested in fit the needs of your DC and whether they would thrive academically at a grammar school without intensive tuition. Also look beyond exam results and league tables.

Interesting convo re Chesham and the Challoners.