Why would a college not let a student do 4 a levels?

[Newbie1222]

Why are some students allowed to do 4 a levels and others only 3? Is that based on gcse results and what the college think the student will be able to achieve?

It could also be a timetabling issue?

Universities only require 3 A levels so why push for 4 when the results could be lower grades across the board? Better to get 3 high grades. There are generally no AS levels (unless you are in Wales or somewhere that does them but as far as I am aware they are not standard) so no benefit to taking 4 in year 12 and dropping one by year 13 so it would be 4 A levels all the way through.

Funding, students are covered for 3 years from 16-19 and as far as I am aware for just 3 A levels.

Indie and selective sixth forms tend to do 4, the benefit to that would be applications for Oxbridge, however lots of students get into top universities with 3 A levels including for medicine.

Ds did do 4 but his 4th subject was further maths alongside maths. You had to get a 7 in maths at GCSE to do further maths, half his class dropped fm to concentrate on increasing their maths A level grade. Minimum GCSE grade for maths A level was a 6 but these translate into lower A level grades.

The general rule of thumb is one grade down from GCSE to A level obviously there are students who achieve As. Yes Ds's 4 A levels were based on his GCSE results which were used to "predict" his A level potential. This is about achieving the best grades they can rather than them struggling with the workload of 4. Also as coco* says, timetabling and staff.

Generally yes.

In the past when A Levels were in two stages, the AS and the A2, some schools would let lots of people do four, then drop their weakest AS result. The ones with four strong AS results would carry on with four. Now most A Levels are linear (just the A2 at the end of the second year) it's not worth it to do this.

(Disclaimer: not all schools are like this.)

A significant proportion of students starting Year 12 doing four A Levels drop one quite early. Students also drop them late when their University of choice has asked for, say, AAB, but they are on track for ABCC, by dropping to 3 they might get three higher grades.

If some courses are oversubscribed and they are having to turn people away then they don't want to give places to students who quickly decide it's too much work and drop out.

The best way of predicting who this might happen to is to look at GCSE results.

However a 6th form would still probably let someone do 4 if they specifically asked.

There is little point them doing 4 a levels as uni offers are always based on 3. In my experience students taking 4 do less well as the workload is highre. It is better to concentrate on doing really well in 3.

Then again if they have a passion for the 4th subject then why not?

4 is hard. Only need 3..many places prefer you to concentrate on 3 and get better grades than 4 with lower grades.
Sometimes there is overlaps makes easier or a general studies

I must also add that as teachers are under a huge amount of pressure to push grades up every year the a HOD may well be reluctant to take someone one knowing that they are really their '4th' choice.

In some schools many students start with 4 to give them a taste of the subject, but the weakest one is dropped fairly quickly.

This has completely changed since I started teaching. When ASs were introduced 4 AS were the norm with most dropping to 3 A2s but a good few keeping 4 up.

Now that has completely changed. With end of 2 year assessments there's no second chances so high stakes - very important to do well in all exams. 3 is now done by nearly everyone. Exception being double maths. There's no advantage to 4 and the grades for 3 need to be good!

Some colleges still do AS... I'm in England and our local sixth form college does

It wont be doing 4 ASs that are then followed by A2s surely? Rather an optional extra AS as a stand alone exam which is very different to the previous system.

Ours only let you do four if one is further maths. There just isn't a point in doing four as you only need three. Ours get six hours of face to face per subject and six hours of homework per subject and then independent study. With EPQ, extra curricular/enrichment and a job or volunteer work for your university application that's quite enough.

Most colleges these days only allow 3 unless the 4th is Further Maths. Occasionally they might allow 4 if a student is pretty certain of getting all A*.

More than 3 (except FM) is not necessary.

@Newbie1222 any specific reason for the 4? ie undecided? Think it gets you an offer from a certain uni?

To put it in cold hard facts, in 2019 the number of students taking A levels was

1 x A level was 26,000 or 10.6%
2 x A levels was 41,650 or 17%
3 x A levels was 166,850 or 68%
4 x A levels was 10,600 or 4.3%
5+ x A levels was 200 or 0.1%

That means that 95.6% of all students sat 3 or less A levels compared to 4.4% of 4 or higher.

A better use of time would be engaging in something outside of the classroom that shows your love of a subject that means you struggle to cut it all down to fit on the personal statement rather than struggling for something to write on the personal statement if university is the end goal.

Far better to waltz 3 x A* than possibly have a 4th subject weaken the grades of the others, dividing time over 4 subjects rather than 3.

what everyone else says - this has changed in relatively recent years; there is no point taking four A levels in terms of uni offers, as it offers no advantage and in fact may lead to lower grades.

Four A levels is a lot more work. Unless we are talking maths and FM then it is not a good idea. And even then, if committed to maths, maths, FM and one other is fine (I am aware that this is a controversial view on MN but I know a number of students who have done this and done well).

Why four @Newbie1222? Are they undecided as to subjects? If you can tell us which subjects someone may be able to advise as there are lots of specialists on this board with good subject knowledge.

My children are at / went to a grammar and everyone did 3 with the exception of those doing further maths, although quite a few of them dropped to maths, further maths + 1 other in year 13. Most so an EPQ. The expectation is that you run academic societies / mentor primary / secondary students as well.

Uni’s only offer on 3 a levels.

My kids sixth form lets them start with 4, and then almost all of them drop one at some point. Some of them do an AS in the one they are dropping at the end of year 12.
Very few actually take 4, and those that do tend to have double maths as 2 of them.

I started with 4 then realised it was misearable snd very hard and I needed to get good grades in my uni 3. 30 years ago but same applies...

The norm is 3 and even very gifted students aren’t normally encouraged to do 4

Absolutely no need to do 4 and put themselves under extra pressure. Only students doing further maths can do 4 in our school and most students go on to RG Oxbridge medicine etc

DD doing 4 A-levels at her secondary school with a view to dropping one after year 12. I think she has already decided which one she is dropping

DD is doing 4 A Levels at state comp as she loves all the subjects. Not maths or FM. Her school allows anyone with all 8/9s at GCSE to take four subjects and there is no pressure to drop a subject unless the student is struggling.