SPS, Winchester, or Westminster?

[MoreHolidays]

Happy holidays, everybody!
I was speaking recently with the head of my son's school and he was listing some secondary schools that my son may consider. The boy is very bookish and academic, enjoys art and music, and has no interest in sport. He is rather introverted. The head suggested that Winchester is a good school for "eccentric" academic boys. Whilst I know Winchester has an excellent reputation, I am concerned on two fronts. Firstly, I would rather he go to a day school and remain in London. Secondly, I am very sceptical about single-sex education.

The head told me that Winchester will soon admit girls into the sixth form. As for London, he suggested Westminster (which already admits girls in the sixth form) and SPS (which has a sister school). All three are very academic. Whilst Westminster sounds like a great school, the website says they have classes on Saturday morning. I would much rather my son have weekends free rather than have school six days a week. As for SPS, I have heard from other parents that it is a very intense, pushy school. Another school he recommended is called Bedales. From what I have read, it sounds like a wonderful school with a liberal ethos, but I have also heard its academics are not very good compared to the other three.

In all, I think my son would do best at a school that emphasizes academics and a friendly environment. I think he would do poorly at a school with a culture of bullying/teasing or with a heavy focus on sport. He is especially interested in history, reading, and politics (less so on maths and science). Opportunities to learn about art and music would be a plus.

Any advice on these schools would be greatly appreciated. I would love to hear about your experiences with them.

You wrote all that half an hour before the start of Christmas Day? (I’m guessing you either don’t celebrate it, or are at the obsessed stage of school choice!)

It sounds as if your HM is on the ball, which is good. Quite honestly you’ll need to base your decisions on visits to the schools, rather than on what you’ve heard from others.

And you can be fairly sure they’ll all offer the things you’ve mentioned, as standard. That’s what the fees pay for.

for co-ed day schools in London, the most academic are (in no particular order): Highgate, Alleyns, Latymer upper, Bancrofts. There are many others with a range of academic standards.
KCS is boys only to 16 but has a co-ed 6th form. City of London (boys) has links with city girls.
You don't have to fit in with somebody else's (outdated) vision of where your child should go.

Which year is your DS in? It's incredibly hard to find the 'right' school for your children, but the best thing you can do is to go with your own instincts after visiting the school and talking to the boys there.

All the schools mentioned are highly academic and incredibly difficult to get into. Once your DS is in Y5 you will have an idea of his academic level based on CAT scores and school feedback. It is recommended that you have a CAT score of 132+ for Westminster, SPS and Winchester. (remember the CAT scores are only one indication of ability and does not guarantee places).

It's incredibly hard to find the 'right' school for your children,

Sorry you found it so … That wasn’t our experience. It sounds as if the OP’s child is at a prep - she’s paying for their knowledge and expertise in matching children to suitable schools. So it shouldn’t be a problem unless the prep really doesn’t know what it’s doing.

(Obviously pandemic conditions make visiting more problematic, but essentially parents need to focus on a good fit, rather than be swayed too much by third hand reputation.)

In truth, though, I suspect most ‘well adjusted’ children would thrive at a fair number of well chosen places. The difficulty is if parent or child insists on pursuing the wrong schools for that child.

@LiterallyKnowsBest We had a tough time because we couldn’t visit any schools during covid. Also DS was top set/ Cat score 135 etc in a prep school and everyone automatically recommends Westminster and Winchester. I instinctively felt they weren’t right for him - the schools we ended up applying to are less academic schools. This ‘instinct’ came only from visiting and not from what the prep tells parents!

My children attend Westminster Under, are not highly intelligent, have no interest in arts or music, and one has no interest in sports either. Please do not base your views on what others say, as you might be surprised when visiting the schools yourself.
Eldest was offered a place at Winchester- we actually loved the school- but decided on Westminster due to logistics. The opportunities and interests offered at all schools mentioned are countless. Your son will fit in very well w those interests. Happy to guide further if needed.

@LiterallyKnowsBest

You wrote all that half an hour before the start of Christmas Day? (I’m guessing you either don’t celebrate it, or are at the obsessed stage of school choice!)

It sounds as if your HM is on the ball, which is good. Quite honestly you’ll need to base your decisions on visits to the schools, rather than on what you’ve heard from others.

And you can be fairly sure they’ll all offer the things you’ve mentioned, as standard. That’s what the fees pay for.

Hello, thank you for commenting. No, we don't celebrate Christmas. I'm also a notoriously late sleeper. Ever since working from home I no longer need to get up early. My husband on the other hand promptly goes to sleep at 10 and wakes up at 7. I'm left watching Netflix and posting on forums.

@Collywoods

My children attend Westminster Under, are not highly intelligent, have no interest in arts or music, and one has no interest in sports either. Please do not base your views on what others say, as you might be surprised when visiting the schools yourself. Eldest was offered a place at Winchester- we actually loved the school- but decided on Westminster due to logistics. The opportunities and interests offered at all schools mentioned are countless. Your son will fit in very well w those interests. Happy to guide further if needed.

Thank you for commenting. I am glad to hear your children had good experiences at WU. The two reasons why I am reluctant to enroll him at Westminster are 1) Lack of girls until sixth form. 2) Saturday morning classes. I would much rather my son have weekends off, and I think he would too. The idea of having courses six days a week is bizarre to me.

Name change for this. I am previous parent for one of these schools.
For what reasons has your DS’s headmaster labelled him as ‘eccentric’?
Not being interested in sport or because he does n’t get social cues? Academic day schools in London will be full of the former category and enriched for the latter when selecting for very bright boys.

I personally think that single sex is fine if it is the right fit school, and there is plenty of other contact with girls for example from sisters or socially. However you could start focussing on the co-ed academic day schools suggested to you by pps with a reasonable travel time. If they don’t feel right after a visit plus talking to parents with sons at them perhaps revisit the options of Westminster and SPS. Just keep an open mind and remember that the term ‘pushy schools’ usually reflects ‘pushy parents‘.

If your DS is an autodidact, much of his learning and interests will occur in his own time and not depend on the school. It is however a plus if the teachers have lesson time and the ability to develop thinking skills well beyond the needful for high exam grades.

I am with others in wondering why you were wishing “Happy Holidays” on Christmas Day. No other religious festival on 25 Dec AFAIK.

I am a former LU/Westminster parent. Choosing a school is a bit like buying a house. It’s an individual thing. Go and see a lot and you and your DS will work out which feels right. DS loved Westminster and was not so keen on SPS, so easy choice. (Boarding was not for us, financially or emotionally.) DD switched to Westminster from LU and was equally happy. But that was my DC. DD is very sporty and very dyslexic and never willingly reads a book. DS in contrast is very studious and always had his head stuck in a book. They each found their tribe and their place.

Both mine were happy with Saturday morning classes and matches etc on Saturday afternoon. To be honest they like many teenagers preferred the company of friends to parents. Westminster runs like a boarding school. DS often stayed for supper, did his homework at school and then spent time in the gym with friends returning home at 1.00pm. DD used to go in on Sundays have brunch with boarder friends, do homework with them and then they would all head out for noodles or similar.

I don’t think DS minded the absence of girls till 16. However if your son is more precocious you should look at some of the very good coeds. LU has a very different feel and definitely suits some more.

Hi OP there are minimal links between CLS and CLSG wrt to learning. I’d rule that out as a possibility and is the main reason I’m moving DD at 6th form. Winchester is admitting girls to 6th but not providing a accommodation at the moment:-( which may be off-putting to some families. Bancroft, Highgate and Alleyns although well known are not 1er as other london day schools so it depends upon what you want really - to be in London regardless or to be at a ‘well-known’ school?

@Needmoresleep

I am with others in wondering why you were wishing “Happy Holidays” on Christmas Day. No other religious festival on 25 Dec AFAIK.

I am a former LU/Westminster parent. Choosing a school is a bit like buying a house. It’s an individual thing. Go and see a lot and you and your DS will work out which feels right. DS loved Westminster and was not so keen on SPS, so easy choice. (Boarding was not for us, financially or emotionally.) DD switched to Westminster from LU and was equally happy. But that was my DC. DD is very sporty and very dyslexic and never willingly reads a book. DS in contrast is very studious and always had his head stuck in a book. They each found their tribe and their place.

Well, I assumed most people here celebrate Christmas. Also, Boxing day is on the 26th, and New Year's is coming up.

That is another aspect of boarding that makes me a tad reluctant, as I would not want my son far from his sister, and neither would he. Our daughter is also not very academic, and she is quite happy where she is.

@Needmoresleep

Both mine were happy with Saturday morning classes and matches etc on Saturday afternoon. To be honest they like many teenagers preferred the company of friends to parents. Westminster runs like a boarding school. DS often stayed for supper, did his homework at school and then spent time in the gym with friends returning home at 1.00pm. DD used to go in on Sundays have brunch with boarder friends, do homework with them and then they would all head out for noodles or similar.

I don’t think DS minded the absence of girls till 16. However if your son is more precocious you should look at some of the very good coeds. LU has a very different feel and definitely suits some more.

Of course, most teenagers prefer being around their friends than parents but I would assume they'd prefer to socialize and go out rather than be at school. Thinking back to when I was a teenager in London, my friends and I would be aghast at classes on Saturdays. Then again I was much more social than academic.

As for girls, I just am inclined to think that coeducation is better for social development. I don't see a good reason why schools are still sex-segregated. I remember when my parents were picking schools for me as a teenager, I was adamant that I'd only attend co-educational schools.

“Happy Holidays” sounds odd. It is normal to wish Hindu, Jewish or Muslim friends well on relevant feast days, but a strange squeamishness has crept in about Christianity and Christmas. New Year is next week, and I am not aware of anyone wishing people a happy Boxing Day, unless it it the tradesmen who traditionally receive tips.

But that is off topic.

In terms of hanging out with friends inside or outside school, there is an awful lot going on at Westminster. Drama, art, sport, some exceptional music, debating, and all sorts of societies. DC were quite happy to hang out with friends at school, as if they were at boarding school, but obviously able to come home if they wanted or go to parties at weekends.

You seem very set on co-Ed. There are a lot of very good co Ed schools in London, and they would seem obvious choices. We certainly came across several families at LU who had turned down places at SPS, Westminster or KCS, because they wanted coed. Kids do best in schools that are a good fit. DD would have got as good grades if she stayed at LU. She was so busy making the most of her time at Westminster that though she gained a lot from the broader education there, the sheer range of things she was involved in probably took away focus from her grades. (Both did well enough to get University courses they wanted, but in terms of actual grades, being at Westminster over being at, say, Alleyns, probably won’t make a lot of difference, assuming both schools are a good fit.)

@Needmoresleep

Both mine were happy with Saturday morning classes and matches etc on Saturday afternoon. To be honest they like many teenagers preferred the company of friends to parents. Westminster runs like a boarding school. DS often stayed for supper, did his homework at school and then spent time in the gym with friends returning home at 1.00pm. DD used to go in on Sundays have brunch with boarder friends, do homework with them and then they would all head out for noodles or similar.

I don’t think DS minded the absence of girls till 16. However if your son is more precocious you should look at some of the very good coeds. LU has a very different feel and definitely suits some more.

Thank you for your comment Needmoresleep. A few questions. Are day students required to stay for dinner on weekdays? You say your son "often" stayed for supper, which makes me think he did not always do so. Also, if your son stayed over for dinner and did his homework, how would he return at 1pm?

I don’t know if it is still the case, but day students were welcome at breakfast and dinner during the week and at meals during the weekend. It was absolutely optional, but as they got older it was often simpler to stay for supper and do homework together, and then use the sports hall, which closed quite late. Students were quite far flung, and one third of the cohort were boarding so school was a natural focus. At another school they might have gone to each other’s houses. This can be a problem at City where few pupils live close to the school and social life can be congregated in places like Islington, great if you live there but less good if you live, say, in south London. LU was simpler as many lived along the district line, though friendships often split depending on whether you came in from the east or west.

At one point DS used to go in for breakfast. In rest Rosie the it was the time when he was growing/eating a lot. The temptation of a cooked breakfast overcame any teenage desire to stay in bed longer.

So absolutely not obligatory, but an example of how Westminster operates more like a boarding school.

Westminster was far closer for DD than LU, and a fair proportion of the girls were full time boarders, so she enjoyed having a group of her school friends just down the road, and scope to join them for Sunday brunch.

He tended to come home about 10.00pm. But that was eating, studying, hanging out and gym.

I don’t see where you get your 1.00pm. (am?). As far as I remember homework was never particularly burdensome.

It might be different for those who lived further away, say beyond the M25. Equally others would be staying for music practice, drama etc.

Your earlier comment reads "DS often stayed for supper, did his homework at school and then spent time in the gym with friends returning home at 1.00pm."

She probably missed a zero....

Easily done.

I'm happy to wish all my different faithed friends happy Hannuka, happy Eid and happy Diwali. I don't see why we can't have happy Christmas?

As a former boarder of a school full of possibilities that had both day and boarders, staying at school becomes more and more preferable as you get into your later teens. You are running your own life, more autonomous and going home and back and forth gets a bit much especially if there's Saturday school. Staying over is much easier and it's like a sleepover with your friends. Parents become less and less of a consideration.

Your DS may be eccentric now but even the eccentric ones became more sociable and enjoyed the company of similar eccentrics to themselves... boarding is a very bonding experience. I miss it, only for that reason, nothing else.

Sorry. Was on phone.

No they were definitely kicked out at about 10.00pm.

But from what you say, I don’t really understand why you are looking at single sex schools.

Just to share my experience as an OW- the Saturday school thing really wasn't a big deal. It wasn't a very taxing morning (abbey plus tutor time/activities so not many lessons) and in most cases boys will be doing sport on a Saturday anyway so it's not possible to keep the whole day free in any event. Plus all his school friends will be doing it as well (obviously) so it won't feel like a hardship. I wouldn't let it be the deciding factor if you otherwise like the school.

All three are great schools so I am sure your son will do well at any of them.