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Secondary education

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Original poster

Science in private school

48 replies

EPQTeacher · 13/12/2021 17:40

Me and my wife have been debating about if it would be worth sending our children to a secondary private school in order for them to recieve the best STEM education available. Hmm

Both of them are very science oriented and we are a STEM-centred family. Parents of children who sent their children to private schools, how would you say their STEM (Science, Technology and Maths) education is compared to state schools?

Do you do/buy anything outside of the classroom to maximise their learning/attainment? Confused

OP posts:
luverlybubberly · 13/12/2021 17:57

You'd need to name the schools in question. It's not as simple as one is better than the other.

CMOTDibbler · 13/12/2021 18:03

I think you can't generalise. My ds is at a bog standard state comprehensive, and his physics teacher has a PhD in Astrophysics. I know someone who teaches physics at a fairly posh private school, and they last studied physics at A level, and have a not related (though STEM) degree.
If you are a STEM orientated family, the best thing you can do is give your DC lots of opportunities to learn outside school - I take my ds to local IOP lectures, and tomorrow we are doing the Diamond light source public lectures for instance

luverlybubberly · 13/12/2021 18:44

@CMOTDibbler

I think you can't generalise. My ds is at a bog standard state comprehensive, and his physics teacher has a PhD in Astrophysics. I know someone who teaches physics at a fairly posh private school, and they last studied physics at A level, and have a not related (though STEM) degree. If you are a STEM orientated family, the best thing you can do is give your DC lots of opportunities to learn outside school - I take my ds to local IOP lectures, and tomorrow we are doing the Diamond light source public lectures for instance
My kids go to a comp where one of the science teachers has a PhD in microbiology. Even my kids were wondering why she teaches at their school

I've read on here that private schools don't always require a teaching qualification to work there. So you could have a teacher with a degree from a top uni but no teaching qualification.

Hoppinggreen · 13/12/2021 18:48

Depends on the school
At my DCs Private school the STEM provision is excellent and very well resourced and the teachers are very well qualified
But I can’t comment on the Private school you are considering

GratS · 13/12/2021 19:27

Which particular schools are you comparing? Never as simple as generalising that all private schools will be better, some of the B list ones are really lacking in up to date equipment and have very lacklustre teaching. One of the reasons that we turned down our local private is that they teach GCSE maths using some bog standard program so children were watching videos in every lesson. They had very good music but woeful STEM.
Our local state academy has the most amazing science department - they recently arranged a brilliant TED talk type event with astronauts and those involved in the space industry. Lots of children doing science A level and heading off to do Vet science or Medicine.
In terms of maths it is the most popular A level at our state school, and in terms of engineering Dyson sponsor a pupil to go to University and sponsored the DT block and gave them a 3d printer.

GratS · 13/12/2021 19:28

Have you come across the MEL science kits? Expensive but brilliant, we use the teen one for our primary age child as the primary school does very little by way of real science experiments.

user1471530109 · 13/12/2021 19:35

Have a look at the smallpiece trust courses.

I think you'd be much better looking into the local schools. You may find the local comp has an amazing science department with outstanding results. If you're only reason to consider private is this, I'd really research schools that have what you are looking for.

user1471530109 · 13/12/2021 19:36

I mean Smallpeice Trust

Youaremypenguin · 13/12/2021 19:40

I went to private school. Iearnt more once I'd left and went to main stream school.

time2tork · 13/12/2021 19:42

My children go to a free STEM school, one of the Aspiration Academy schools - there are only a few around if you live in the South. Great opportunities.

Original poster
EPQTeacher · 13/12/2021 21:48

@GratS

Which particular schools are you comparing? Never as simple as generalising that all private schools will be better, some of the B list ones are really lacking in up to date equipment and have very lacklustre teaching. One of the reasons that we turned down our local private is that they teach GCSE maths using some bog standard program so children were watching videos in every lesson. They had very good music but woeful STEM. Our local state academy has the most amazing science department - they recently arranged a brilliant TED talk type event with astronauts and those involved in the space industry. Lots of children doing science A level and heading off to do Vet science or Medicine. In terms of maths it is the most popular A level at our state school, and in terms of engineering Dyson sponsor a pupil to go to University and sponsored the DT block and gave them a 3d printer.
That's actually quite insightful. Can you elaborate further on what you meant by you knew that your local private school had woeful STEM teaching?
OP posts:
Original poster
EPQTeacher · 13/12/2021 21:50

@GratS

Have you come across the MEL science kits? Expensive but brilliant, we use the teen one for our primary age child as the primary school does very little by way of real science experiments.
I've been looking at the MEL science kits but they seem more suited for secondary school student. Why choose MEL for your primary aged child rather than something like KiwiCo, if you don't mind me asking?
OP posts:
clary · 13/12/2021 23:06

Agree with others, you need to consider the individual schools.

DS2 did science A levels and highly rates the maths dept at his school (as do I); in addition the chemistry dept (he didn't do chem) includes an inspirational teacher who has a PhD. OTOH the physics teachers he had for GCSE left something to be desired. You cannot generalise.

Remember also that teachers will move; DD was taught KS3 history by a fab teacher but he now works somewhere else. Obviously there is more to a school's STEM offer than its teachers, but they will be the backbone of it (as you will know OP if, as your name suggests, you are yourself a teacher).

GratS · 14/12/2021 07:33

@EPQTeacher
Like I said, they use a system of teaching of maths I didn’t like, they have poor science facilities and I know from friends who have teachers there that the science teachers aren’t great. They also get fairly unimpressive science results, not that results are everything. By contrast their music teaching and facilities is wonderful and they have a great reputation and they have a very strong lacrosse set up, but I didn’t want my children to play lacrosse. Like all institutions private schools have their own strengths and weaknesses and you need to find them out from looking around and from asking current parents. Saying ‘is science better at private schools’ is like saying ‘do people from Liverpool make the best friends.’ They might do, but they might not, they are individual.
Re Mel science we just love the kits - we went for the older age as we do them with primary DC so perfectly safe and our older 2 DC also love science so they are interesting to them too. Can’t recommend them more highly but they are expensive.
So which are the schools you are considering, maybe we can help you by looking at websites or we might know them.

SheWoreYellow · 14/12/2021 07:37

In our area (a nice suburb of a big city) the teaching at the private schools is generally better than our local high school because there is less time spent on behavioural issues.
So from that point of view the STEM teaching is better.
Depends on the schools though.

Generally the assumption would be that the teaching experience is better at private schools, whether that’s because of smaller classrooms or better behaviour, otherwise why do people pay for it?

daisypond · 14/12/2021 07:47

The physics teacher at my DC’s inner city comprehensive was the author of one of the GCSE textbooks.

Namenic · 14/12/2021 07:56

Make sure they have the option of triple award science. DH was at a state school and begged to do it, but wasn’t allowed - but that was like 20years ago so I hope it has changed.

daisypond · 14/12/2021 08:00

@Namenic

Make sure they have the option of triple award science. DH was at a state school and begged to do it, but wasn’t allowed - but that was like 20years ago so I hope it has changed.
My DC at comprehensive did three separate sciences, whereas friends at private school only did double.
RampantIvy · 14/12/2021 08:11

The STEM provision at DD's comprehensive school was excellent. She achieved A* in triple science and maths at GCSE, and went on to take science A levels where she achieved all As. My friend's DC's (private) school didn't do double or triple science, but single sciences. None of her DC did any chemistry after year 9. It impacted one of them who wanted to go to an excellent 6th form college and take A level biology. He wasn't allowed to do this as he didn't do any chemistry at GCSE level.

Basically, some schools are better than others, regardless of whether they are state or private.

Madcats · 14/12/2021 08:19

It really is going to depend on the schools in your local area (or where you might choose to relocate).

Any decent Indie school should publish its GCSE results and leaver destinations. There are probably virtual tours of the schools. It's a while since I looked, but the prospectus probably outlines timetables.

What competitions are the school entering? What extra-curricular clubs are there?

Inspirational teachers will motivate keen learners, but kit helps too

Original poster
EPQTeacher · 14/12/2021 08:47

How you mean by kit? Like classroom equipment or external kits like MEL Science or KiwiCo?

OP posts:
moanymyrtle · 14/12/2021 09:26

Check the hours allocated. DC private school does single sciences so has experts in each but crucially as the school week is about 7 hours a week longer than state schools they can fit in separate lessons every week. The local state school did general science pre gcse. It said it was finding it hard to fit in the hours for 3 sciences so would teach 2 for a term and then rotate. This was because the Govt had made them prioritise other subjects. It was obvious pupils would be getting far less teaching per subject. DC school also runs after school activities that include STEM options / competitions and always has pupils who get an Arkwright Scholarship etc They did 12 GCSE including FM (one via an after school activity). This made it easier for pupils to choose 3 sciences and still have other choices

RampantIvy · 14/12/2021 09:40

DC private school does single sciences so has experts in each

I would imgine any large secondary school would have experts in each. DD's 1500 pupil comprehensive school had dedicated biology, chemistry and physics teachers. Her school was an 11 - 18 school so the teachers had to be capable of teaching up to A level. At GCSE (from year 10) DD had 10 hours per fortnight for each science subject (she took triple science).

I do feel that some parents of privately educated children underestimate just how good some state secondary schools are.

lanthanum · 14/12/2021 10:32

There are some state schools that struggle to recruit maths/science teachers, and may be without a physics specialist. But many are well-supplied with highly-qualified and trained teachers.

My rule of thumb was "do their results show at least a set's worth of top grades in maths/science/English?" If so, then (a) the teachers know what they're doing, and (b) there's a peer group of able kids.

languagelover96 · 14/12/2021 10:47

Some schools are much better than others. For me personally, science lessons were not ranked high up on my personal list of important things to ask about in other simpler words I was more concerned about English etc. Discuss this with the school or see if you can find another school.