Alleyns 11+ 2021

[89fomveg]

Hi, I just wondered if anyone knows how many kids got through the first stage of the Alleyns assessment process this year? Any idea of the number who applied and the number passing through after the ISEB exam?

@MrsLavBerry

Can someone also comment on the diversity at Alleyn's? I know the school is trying to improve the BAME numbers, but does it have much real impact apart from making its brochure and website looks more inclusive?

The school is pretty diverse. About 40% BAME in my daughters year and it seems fairly similar throughout. There are a lot more mixed race children perhaps than JAGs or DC but overall similar.

I haven't been at the school very long so can't comment except to say that before accepting our place (as we had more than one offer) we spoke to a number of parents and they were all glowing in their recommendation and very happy. We also spoke to former parents, former students and a current teacher who is also a good friend and they all recommended it highly.

Still, I don't want to invalidate the experience of anyone else and no school is going to fit every child.

@Schiffman thanks for your advice but pleased rest assured I already talk to both my children and have an excellent understanding of how their lives at school are. Please don’t take your kids experience and extrapolate it over the whole school population.

I don’t you can extrapolate to all dc at the school

Or even to other dc

Experiences will be different

I went ten years ago and can remember a sort of cliquey bullying vibe from teachers and students - I developed severe depression and anxiety whilst there tbh and would sadly have to say there was a bit of a ‘sinister’ vibe. Teachers having “affairs” with students was not uncommon, and I remember some nasty scenes on the days of the “slave auctions”. Attractive sixth form girls being “bought” by gangs of boys and made to mud wrestle, water thrown on them etc. A disabled male sixth former was “paid” to do humiliating acts on the quad. Yeah … I found it pretty feral and nasty at best, although I imagine had I been popular and sporty maybe I’d have had a different experience?
For comparison I went to a comprehensive for sixth form and whilst I noticed similar bullying from teachers, at least it was free!

Am sorry you had a bad experience but discussing things that happened before their kids were even born is not going to help parents who are now considering the school?

Oh yeah and I was sexually assaulted at an alleyns party in yr 9, in front of everyone, then relentlessly bullied about it in school afterwards. But my main issue looking back is why did the parents lay on a tonne of alcohol for 13 year olds and who was/wasn’t supervising while it happened? That was another big difference between my friends who went to comprehensive schools - alleyns parties are notoriously druggy/ alcohol laden (due to absent/media luvvy type parents I assume, from what I remember) from young ages, whereas all my state school friends seemed to have much more innocent lives than my alleyns/JAGs pals and far less access to drugs and alcohol!

@ChnandlerBong bit late to be working overtime in the alleyns press office isn’t it, policing mumsnet threads different experiences and opinions will exist whether you want to hear them or not, luv

@letmeeatcrisps it sounds like you had a bad time- for reasons that are within and outside of the school’s control. Nothing can remedy that.

I am an Alleyns parent as can be seen from all my other posts. My only interest is to advise prospective parents on the school my dd is currently attending.

I don’t doubt that there are worrying tales that can be told about Alleyns, DC or any London independent school. From a Me Too or a general well-being perspective. I don’t doubt the veracity of these histories.

What I do query is whether parents providing alcohol for their 13 year olds (however long ago) should have any bearing on the decisions currently being considered by prospective parents.

Luv.

Thanks for all the input, it's really interesting to see the range of views. I do appreciate that over time there will be a range of experiences.

The thing that I'm trying to work out is whether there are significant differences between the approach to pastoral care or teaching approach between Alleyn's and the other Dulwich independent schools. I understand that both are selective and thus have capable students and to a huge extent their results are reflective of this intake, but to the extent DC are highly academic it's helpful to get a range of views to understand where might be the best fit.

I am a current Alleyns parent. My DD is extremely happy there. The pastoral care is excellent. She has made good friends, does lots of extra curricular clubs and loves the school.
She seems to have excellent teachers, at least she tells us they are good.
There is a regular report form telling us how she is doing.
The facilities are outstanding but DD is outgoing, good at sport and joins lots of clubs.
I could not ask for a better school.

@Schiffman, I’m struggling to understand how Alleyns is a good school for the right child when there is a culture of cliquishness, bullying, avoidance of me too issues, and bad pastoral care and when the new head is unable to implement change; as you say. That’s not an acceptable environment for any child and as I’m seriously considering this school, I’m now very very worried.

[quote holalulu]@Schiffman, I’m struggling to understand how Alleyns is a good school for the right child when there is a culture of cliquishness, bullying, avoidance of me too issues, and bad pastoral care and when the new head is unable to implement change; as you say. That’s not an acceptable environment for any child and as I’m seriously considering this school, I’m now very very worried.[/quote]
That’s one view but it’s more than an acceptable environment for dc.

I’d get a broader range of insight as it doesn’t sound like what we are experiencing.

[quote holalulu]@Schiffman, I’m struggling to understand how Alleyns is a good school for the right child when there is a culture of cliquishness, bullying, avoidance of me too issues, and bad pastoral care and when the new head is unable to implement change; as you say. That’s not an acceptable environment for any child and as I’m seriously considering this school, I’m now very very worried.[/quote]
This is not a fair summary of what schiffman said, and you cannot generlize her dd's experience. She put her case with such vehemence against the school, just compare it with the one star reviews on Amazon. Do they represent the full picture? Of course not.

I was at Alleyn's open day recently, one girl I talked to mentioned that she got lots of MH support during the lockdown. This girl has a card she can show to the teachers at any point to leave the classroom and get support. I see this a positive sign that the students can freely talk about her issues with the prospective parents.

Btw, there is a times article by the new head on the me too. Leaving aside the self promotion and PR, she is doing something.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-war-helps-no-one-says-head-of-alleyn-s-school-after-rape-culture-testimonies-zs6g7dnll

@Schiffman apologies, read in a hurry with two tantrumming toddlers. Will re-read.

@MarshaBradyo @MrsLavBerry I do understand that was one parent’s experience from a while ago, a tad bit disheartening to read, nonetheless. Thank you for your insight though, glad to hear your kids are happy, and it seems a lot of other kids are too.

@MrsLavBerry, I think you need to make your own decisions. Most parents who are unhappy will not say so for the many reasons I outlined. Alleyn's is suited to a certain type of child and that's what is best kept in mind. From what I have seen and it's recent ie last year, the teaching and safeguarding and pastoral care are no different to any school, whether it be an academy or grammar school. My expectations were too high in that regard because for some silly reason I expected those to be high too. My experience of DC is that the teaching, safeguarding and pastoral care are excellent but they are dealing with all boys and the "feel" there is much different ie less conservative and more suitable for "certain characters". Alleyn's however does have excellent facilities, infrastructure, choice of subjects, after-school activities etc (and that is what you are paying for) but I will say that I think DC are better in all regards on that front too due to the music options and club choices being so varied. There are so many at DC that I actually want to go back to school. Please do look into what Alleyn's offer at A level as many children had to re-think their options due to certain subjects not being offered eg Computer Science springs to mind.
So if I had to compare the two, I would pick DC but once again, that is based on my child. There will always be happy parents if a child is doing well and fits into the school's structure but it's so hard to work that out from a few visits that inevitably, parents can get it wrong. Hence I was trying to help. My intention was not to concern anyone. If we were sitting at a coffee table, I could get a few other parents to tell their experiences but as these forums can get very upsetting, I'd like to bow out gracefully now. My mistake was thinking that Alleyn's was superlative in all regards due to the League Tables. It is my mistake and my mistake alone, based on my experience, my daughter's experience and those of her friends. That is all I have. My suggestion is you ask lots of parents and not just the vocal ones as it's the non-vocal ones that also have a viewpoint.

Can I add one thought? I would also suggest speaking to parents in the older year groups. A lot of the parents that reply that their kids are “extremely happy” tend to be in year 7 and 8 when things generally speaking look great. Amazing facilities and lots more opportunities than the kids had in primary school. In my experience you really need a school to step up the pastoral care later on and especially in year 10 and 11. Unfortunately I do know this has been an issue Alleyns but maybe something the new head is looking to rectify.

@Schiffman - I am so sorry to hear about your DD’s experience. It is so strange, is it not, how people always jump up to “defend” independent schools and how people are more afraid to speak out about independent schools.
My view is that many have become a law on to themselves with heads that run them primarily for their own careers (very lucrative) and as businesses treating children like commodities that churn out A stars. There ought to be far more duty of care towards the children. Parents pay a fortune like an investment and then do not want to admit if things do happen to go wrong.
I really wish parents would write to governors more with any concerns. However, many are afraid, perhaps fearing poor references, their younger children being compromised etc.
The very popular schools know they can fill any vacant places instantaneously so perhaps do not need to try so hard to look after the kids they do have. There is also a culture in independent schools if you “do not like it, leave.”
There is a school in South East London called Eltham College hoping to go fully co-ed that actually sued the girls in connection with Everyone’s Invited. How can they get away with this and people still apply to such a school? Does it not speak volumes about how this school is run? www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/13/ex-pupils-who-compiled-sexual-abuse-dossier-accused-of-blocking-inquiry
I read about this yet people are still applying in droves to this school. Mind boggling - imagine if a state school tried to sue a group of kids for similar.

I have been thinking about this thread and talking to dh about the choices we’ve made

I’m not against state school at all and have used it and found it great

I think for some dc an environment like Alleyn’s can be really good, but I understand the concerns re highly selective schools

I remember checking Everyone’s Invited when DC stuff came out as it was at the time we accepted, I didn’t find much from this school but it may or may not mean much

I’ve been mulling it over and I think the extra stuff is good for the dc there but it could be hard if the wrong fit

What does good fit mean though?
Is it not more that schools like Alleyns have droves of near perfect children aka naturally bright, extra curricular talents, good looking, very low proportion of all types of disability, strong sense of self worth and self esteem. In other words, children who would actually do incredibly well no matter what school they went to.
So if a child with any issues whatsoever is put into that type of environment, or if a child develops any issues, then they feel inadequate and suffer more than they would than if they were in a more normal and less intense environment?
I do not really know what the solution is. Children can change a lot between ages 10 and 16. It is so hard to predict what puberty will do to your child. All schools, especially highly selective schools, need very good pastoral care in place and anti-bullying and pro diversity policies. I do think independent schools have become better at not managing out kids who don’t fit but supporting them, but there is still a very long way to go.
I recently read that certain parents are now suing independent schools over attempted expulsions. Perhaps that is a good thing. I also think parents are independent schools should write to governors more often about any issues. The complaints procedures are there for a reason.

You prefer DC Schiffman? Which obviously some will do but the schools are similar in terms of intake, maybe Alleyn’s a bit more academic.

I think it can be hard if your dc could be better elsewhere, and hard to know before they go. If they do suit whichever school, be it state or private and they do well in many areas including friends, then that is a good result.