Westminster Vs Kings - urgent advice appreciated !

[smartpoppy]

Hello All,

My DD has received an offer for KCS sixth form and we need to accept by tomorrow 5 pm. Tomorrow is also when the Westminster results are expected. Assuming she gets an offer from Westminster and assuming that fees aren't really a consideration (they are! but lets go with the assumption that we should be able to manage) any advice on which would be a better choice? I know its important to match the school to DDs personality and see if the school fits so here are some data points:

She is already at a very good independent secondary currently but wants to move since she thinks it's not academic enough. Her gut feeling is that Kings is a little more academic than her previous school but is not 'that much of an upgrade'. She has her heart set on Engineering/Pure Maths/STEM at Oxbridge and wants to maximise her chances. Super bright (top of her class; predicted 9s at GCSEs in her subjects), super competitive but not sporty or the drama type at all. We think in this respect Westminster probably fits the bill better. But, on the other hand a 45 min commute daily (she's not boarding) as opposed to 10 mins by bus to KCS, Saturday school and a few concerning reports on 'Everyone's invited' has left her (and us) a bit confused. Another point worth mentioning is that she will have 3-4 of her current friends joining KCS (none of them made it to the interview stage at Westminster) so we think it might be easier for her to settle down in a new environment. She says it should not be a factor since she is making a 'fresh start' anyway and is confident she will make new friends wherever she goes. According to her, whether one school (over the other) will help her achieve her full academic potential should be the only consideration.

So as you can see, there are frantic debates going on at home. We will be happy with whatever she chooses but was wondering if anyone who faced similar issues or has a DS/DD at either school would be able give us their honest opinion to help us reach a decision.

Many thanks in advance.

Westminster.

She is 6th form. The commute is not that much.
Moved my own DC to a school with Saturday exactly for the reason that they have that option - much needed discipline on my DC's part, lol. What does your DC say, she seems fine with it from your description - she will just be expanding her social circle.

Did she watch the girls who joined 6th at Westminster on youtube? Does she have any views on what they say?

Well done on her for getting the acceptances.

Thanks Mummy195.

Saturday school is not something she's used to but seems to be something that she thinks should be manageable - extra travel notwithstanding. We did see some videos on you tube - a couple on preparation for westminster exams and interviews and the rest seemed more like paid adverts for how great the school is rather than an honest opinion on the good and bad. So not very helpful I'm afraid.

But many thanks for your inputs. Great to get a 3rd party perspective.

warm regards

We had the exact same decision a few years ago. Lots of my DDs year group went to KCS but she alone went to Westminster. The first term was extremely stressful as Westminster was more like a university in their teaching so the step up was huge. She ended up doing very well but it didn’t work out for all the girls who went there. She knew of some who ended up with As and Bs, rather than A*s.

Btw KCS was also mentioned in the ‘Everyone’s invited’
scandal so I think both schools have similar issues. Both schools have a huge party element at 6th form, which your DD may or may not get involved in. The downside with the Westminster party scene was that pupils come from all over London and beyond, whereas KCS is slightly more local.

It is a tough decision but my DD is very proud of having been to Westminster and you certainly can’t beat assemblies in Westminster Abbey.

Thank you jeanne16. Very useful insights. What made you ultimately decide on W over KCS?

Many thanks

I said it was a few years ago and at that point KCS wasn’t offering A levels and my DD wasn’t keen on doing the IB. Obviously that reason no longer applies.

She was also very taken with the Westminster environment which is very special. I think Westminster does actually provide a real education, as opposed to being an exam factory ( as was the case with her all girls private school). While the transition to Westminster was tough, it made her transition to Cambridge easier than it would have been.

Perfect. Very helpful. Thank you @jeanne16 !

If your daughter is keen on Oxbridge, Westminster has fantastic leavers' results, something to the tune of 40-45% leavers to Oxbridge and top US unis.

www.westminster.org.uk/academic-life/university-destinations/university-entrants/

My daughter left a top independent girls' school for Westminster and loved every minute of it.

Westminster v KCS
City centre v suburbs
Int'l student body v local families
Westminster Abbey as chapel v ??
Wide catchment v SW families

Ref academic comparisons: Acc to the league table just published in the times, KCS is the second school in the entire Uk (st Paul’s girls is the first). KCS is the top boys’ school, and top co-Ed school in the uk. For the fourth year running.

Westminster no 7. in the uk.(Eton is no 11, St. Paul’s boys no 6).

There’s probably not much in it at this high level. Westminster is more “brand name” famous than KCS I think. But are you sure KCS is only “a little more academic” than her current school? Given its top of top ranking in entire uk. If so, I assume she’s at some other top 10 school, so maybe she’s best of staying at her current school?

Thank you @Jumpalicious. That's quite useful as academic comparisons go. With these results, any idea why W consistently has better oxbridge success than KCS? Could it be that a lot less pupils are applying to Oxbridge from KCS, or is it something else that I might be missing?

DD is in a top 15 school currently but feels she is not stretched at all. Thinks both KCS and W would stretch her but W would probably be more academic. I think the oxbridge admission percentages may have influenced her opinion.

Thanks

I’m a teacher and know these schools well. I would go for Westminster without a second thought. Special school and I’m afraid the news about KCS having a nasty sexist culture amongst the boys is, in my experience, true.

They get used to Saturday school.

Writing as a parents whose children got into W but didn’t go there as it wasn’t the right school for them personally, I would definitely say pick W on the basis of your description of your daughter. It absolutely is highly academic and she will be more stretched there than anywhere else, and it is a very special place and it sounds like she would appreciate the history and its uniqueness. It doesn’t mean she will enjoy every day but I think she would be happier to have gone there and had a few challenging days, then go to KCS and always wish maybe she had chosen W.

But of course, both options are fantastic!

@Jumpalicious

Ref academic comparisons: Acc to the league table just published in the times, KCS is the second school in the entire Uk (st Paul’s girls is the first). KCS is the top boys’ school, and top co-Ed school in the uk. For the fourth year running.

Westminster no 7. in the uk.(Eton is no 11, St. Paul’s boys no 6).

There’s probably not much in it at this high level. Westminster is more “brand name” famous than KCS I think. But are you sure KCS is only “a little more academic” than her current school? Given its top of top ranking in entire uk. If so, I assume she’s at some other top 10 school, so maybe she’s best of staying at her current school?

Skewed by no exams taken this year?

I think the Times table is compiled using combined 2017-2019 data.

Anyone else waiting for the Westminster 6th form admissions results today? Our son is waiting to hear. Silence so far.

I’m an OW and would send my daughter there like a shot- it’s a great school.

Re Everyone’s Invited- my DC are at another of the schools that was mentioned. I don’t believe that the schools featured are worse than any other school (unless you go single sex)- this sort of behaviour is appallingly common in all mixed schools. I found the focus on “big name” schools pretty disappointing, as if the well-being of privately educated girls matters more than those in the state sector. So I certainly wouldn’t let it put me off and if anything would expect a featured school to be upping its game and so possibly a better bet than most.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59552169

This news will definitely prove that such appalling school culture and behaviour towards girls is rife every where in every school. Media only cherry picks those ones which will draw maximum public attention and create better sensation.

I’ve also been trying to understand the difference between the Times rankings and Oxbridge success of various schools. Oxford and Cambridge both publish information by school about how many people apply, and how many of these get offers. The big difference between Westminster and KCS seems to be that a much higher proportion of Westminster students who apply actually get offers than is the case for KCS. As I don’t currently have DC at either, I can’t really comment on why that is.

Trust me, KCS much worse than W in terms of behaviour.

Thanks @11Plus2022. I think this is a key question. Exam results seem to be better at Kings (league tables etc) but levers destinations are better at Westminster by far (percentage of oxbridge and international acceptances). This is quite an anomaly. Could Westminster be preparing their cohorts better in terms of what else Oxbridge and others are looking for? Work experience, special projects, personal statements etc. I have no idea. Would love to hear from others who can perhaps offer some explanation.

PPs have mentioned:

• W being more university style in their learning
• W providing a whole education, not just an exam factory

I wonder if some of that is what comes across in interviews and helps with the high success rate for Oxbridge.

I think the probably answer is the schools target different things. If you want to top the league tables you do one thing and if you want to maximise oxbridge you do another.

So for example one of my DC was allowed to take an A level he was forecast a C in at his school which more usually delivers A* and A grades, as they weren’t worried about league tables, and he really wanted to do it regardless of the result.

Thank you to all those who contributed. Just as an update DD has been offered a place at Westminster and is leaning towards accepting it. She is a bit daunted about how different everything will be (new environment (co-ed), new teaching style (more uni type), big fish small pond syndrome etc. But hopefully things will work out. Fingers crossed.

Congratulations to her!