Advice on University/Subject choices

[ValseTriste]

Hi, my son is in Yr 10 at a comprehensive school, and I'm starting to think about what resources may be available/recommended to help him choose course and university. I know we are a way off university applications yet but obviously we are only a year off him having to choose A level options. I have no awareness of what route to go down - whether there are useful online guides to subjects/universities etc or whether there are any recommended university fairs. I imagine that the school will point us in the direction of resources at some point but thought I'd see if anyone has any advice now. I've been looking at a few university websites (including the one I attended!) to get an idea of the course options that are available, as obviously there are so many wider choices than just the subjects on offer at school and I want to get him thinking about that now.
Thanks in advance

Have a look at whatuni.com for all sorts of useful info on courses and choices.

Start with narrowing down the subjects he’s good at and what he likes. You cannot really look at everything from Accounting to Zoology!

The Morrisby test might help you. This goes through a number of attributes your DS has and will suggest careers. Surprisingly accurate for DD! You can then discuss the careers, whether they appeal, and how to go about choosing a course to facilitate the career. If does at the very least give a steer! You pay to do it but worth it I think.

The best advice when you narrow down options is to go for the best university for the course.

I would expect the school to hold a "next steps" event early in y11 where available options are set out. Ours is normally just after October half-term. Subject teachers and 6th form students are on hand to discuss the A levels we offer. Y11 then get a short 1:1 interview with a member of the SLT to talk over their ideas before they submit an application form.

I agree with the comment above about looking at what your DC enjoys and what they are good at. Lots of university courses accept a range of subjects so don't think "oh, they haven't done Law A level so can't do Law at uni" because it's really not the case. Having been a y11 form tutor, my advice is always: choose what you enjoy, choose what you are good at (often the same things!)

The “what you are good at and what you like” regarding choice of A level subjects needs a warning attached.

My friend’s DD was adamant she wanted to be a vet. For years! She didn’t get a single offer despite being very bright with lots of relevant experience. The reason: not the A level combination they preferred. (Definitely an issue for a hugely competitive course). She did get to do a foundation course so now on her way. It’s much better to read up on what you need by scrutinising the info on uni web sites after you narrow down which subject and possible uni. It’s never worth putting yourself at a disadvantage because you and your parents (both of whom were teachers) think they know better. She was lucky a new foundation course had been established.

Cambridge still produce excellent information about what they consider to be the best subjects to underpin academic learning. Other than that, some subjects can help with specific courses. So Politics is useful for Politics but applicants would be best advised to definitely add History and another essay subject or MFL or Maths, to their A levels - for example. This would make the student competitive at the very best universities. At lower ranked universities, it simply is not so important. Which brings us back to researching courses by narrowing down what the students likes and enjoys and has an aptitude for. Then check on academic requirements. Don’t guess!

Honestly you are over thinking and way too early. There’s absolutely no point in assessing likely universities without a handle on predicted grades which you won’t even be near until they’ve done GCSE. It is useful however to have a general inkling of likely SUBJECT because some universities require specific A level subjects eg some economics degrees require maths A level, sciences and engineering will obviously have their own requirements etc.

Thanks for all the advice. Yes @VanCleefArpels absolutely, at this point it's definitely more the subject that I'm thinking about and want to get him thinking about, rather than the university itself. But as he will have to select A level options in a year, it doesn't feel too early to be thinking about that.

His strengths lie in maths and possibly physics. He's top set maths but is only doing combined sciences. He's much stronger in physics than biology for example. GCSE choices are Geography, History, Computer Science and PE.

What has prompted me thinking about this now is that a friend's son has just started university studying aeronautical engineering. I'm not at all saying that that is necessarily something that DS would be interested in, but it made me think that I need to broaden his horizon about the variety of course options that there are out that, ie wider than just the core subjects (eg maths) themselves.

@JessyCarr - thanks for the suggestion of the whatuni website, that's great

@TizerorFizz - I'd not heard of the Morrisby test, thank you

@Malbecfan - yes I believe that there is an Options evening in Year 11, but I just wanted to see what courses are out there between now and then. I've randomly picked a couple of universities and browsed their course options

Thanks for the tips everyone

I don’t think it is too early either. Some DC do know exactly what they want to do. Others are not sure and some subjects float to the front of thinking. However I think there needs to be coherent thought about where favourite subjects might lead.

DD1 was convinced history was her subject in y10. Later MFL became the obvious choice. History, culture, arts and literature could all be incorporated into a MFL degree. All things she enjoyed. So exploration of subjects is never a bad thing. She ended up being a barrister so you never really know!

@TizerorFizz Yes exactly, it's not about making any decisions now but just making him aware of possible course options and just engaging him in thinking about what he might enjoy/be good at.

Your daughter sounds like she had similar interests/strengths to me - I did English, French and History A levels and then a law degree

One thought he has had is that he likes the idea of either studying in N America (either the whole degree or a year)

I agree with others, it's well worth thinking about now.

And it is worth looking at uni options in terms of required subjects - there is a thread about a student who wants to do economics at uni but was not advised to take A level maths, which is a poor decision unfortunately - maths A level more useful for economics at uni than economics A level.

If I were you, one thing I would do is choose a well respected uni and see what courses they offer - what might be of interest - think outside the basic subjects a bit, so not just a physics degree, how about engineering (etc) and then look what they ask for in terms of A levels. Most unis will be similar in that respect - what will vary IME is the grades asked for - you can think about that at the end of year 11.

@clary

The OP in the other thread had a 6 at Maths GCSE. It could well have been good advice that A level Maths was beyond reach. Plus the OP was a mature student and coming into HE via an access course. However, planning according to your strengths is important!

If you are British and living here you will find studying in the USA very expensive. 4 years at $50,000 a year is a ball park figure. You can apply for a place where they are offered on merit snd the university will pay if you don’t have enough money. However, as you might expect, competition is fierce and only available at a few top wealthy universities. The Fulbright Commission can give more details. But being rich or American is the best way in! Followed by being exceptionally bright or sporty if the first two don’t apply. The best value is staying here and doing 3rd year abroad!

One of the main things you can do at this stage to help him is to start saving the pennies - but that’s a whole other conversation!! Maybe get a paper prospectus (easier to dip in and out of than online IME) of a top/middle/bottom level
Uni and have a read of courses around a subject area. I agree so many degrees that don’t correlate to school subjects but which are related. Another thing to bear in mind is that some subjects at A level may be offered “new” - my DD now studying a degree in something related to a new subject she started at A level which was not available at GCSE

Given his current interests and aptitudes, he may want to take a look at the Smallpeice website and also Headstart. The latter do courses in yr 12 which can be helpful for students considering some of the STEM disciplines (not sure if they also do anything for younger ones).

With what you've said so far there are loads of obvious choices apart from maths itself : physics, the many and various types of engineering, the many and various possibilities of com sci/ data science /IT. In all cases there are courses and careers suitable for a variety of aptitudes.

Thanks everyone - all really helpful advice.

Yes I'd definitely taken that view that a 3rd year in N America would be the way forward rather than wholly studying there! He's lucky enough in that he has a benevolent grandparent who will be meeting main university costs, but I'm aware that that won't extend to the costs of a 3/4 year study in the US! And definitely a good suggesting to get him saving himself

Yes, it's really just a case of working out what courses there are out there and seeing what piques his interest. Widening the perspective out from just the school subjects themselves. That's not to say that he might not pick one of the school subjects themselves, but it's just about increasing his awareness about other possible options

The advice I give my kids? Get a vocational degree. I didn't. I got the degree I wanted. And the student debt. Then I had to retrain. And got more debt.

There's time for vanity degrees (I can say this because I have one!) Later in life. But, what you need for the rest of your life is a job. And preferably, one you enjoy. So, do whatever it takes to end up in that position, as early as possible, so there is time later. Work hard while you're young and you've got the energy.

That's interesting @JuneOsborne - I did a vocational degree (law) and often wish I'd done History or English instead! I could still have become a lawyer if I wanted too

I'm mostly just looking for resources to the kinds of courses offered - thanks for all the advice

My DD is a barrister. Did MFL at university. She didn’t think about a definite career at school until she was in y12/13. A selection of her barrister friends have degrees in history, music, classics, MFL, philosophy and English. You can certainly get very good jobs with a decent degree from a top class university. They don’t have to be vocational but what they do have to be is a high quality springboard to a career and further training. The brighter you are, the better! Overall STEM degrees pay better and some of them are not career specific.

@TizerorFizz I think you are talking about a different thread wrt economics without maths - the one I meant is about a Yr 13 student who feels he was badly advised and should have taken maths A level

@clary

Yes. I agree. They are different threads! However same problem! Economics is difficult without maths!

@JuneOsborne I don’t agree at all

Outside the obvious vocational degrees (law, medicine, vet med, accountancy, dentistry, engineering) it is fairly safe to say vocational degrees are offered by those institutions that don’t feature in the top tier. For kids capable of aiming at or near the top their employability will largely hang on where they dye the degree and not what they studied. And to pre-empt comments, yes this is a house brush generality and yes some employers are trying to move to a blind recruitment process but at the moment it is what it is.

Broad brush not house brush obvs

My DS did his degree in Forensic Science, so a science degree (obvs) with practical skills taught alongside theory and knowledge. He graduated this year and secured a job in financial crime with a major audit and accounting company.

There are different ways of studying subjects!

Engineering degrees are perhaps particularly good for being both 'vocational' but also tend to produce highly numerate grads with a variety of transferable skills who can therefore go into a range of occupations thereafter if it turns out they don't want to be an engineer.

For kids capable of aiming at or near the top their employability will largely hang on where they dye the degree and not what they studied.

That only applies in some professions...especially not on the STEM side, which sounds like where the OPs DS is more likely to tend. 'Where' may matter to some extent but the 'what' is crucial.

“Where” matters a huge amount for non stem degrees. As well as the what!

I do absolutely agree with those of you who said that it's too early for sure to know though. Despite DS having a maths/physics lean, he's actually enjoying History the most at the moment (which to be honest he did, if not exactly under duress, certainly with some "encouragement" from us). He seems to be a decent all-rounder. Doesn't really excel at any one thing, but decent at most things. I'm not at all suggesting that we limit him or point him solely in one direction at the moment - merely that we do a bit of research into the wider world of university courses as compared to what is on offer at school