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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Is the 11+ harder/easier/the same as the independent schools entrance exam ?

22 replies

Hideehi · 16/12/2007 22:48

I hear people at our local state primary saying that if their child doesn't pass the 11+ into the grammar school they will send them private, but those schools have an entrance exam too so I wondered if anyone has any experience in comparing the two ?
Ideally I think I would prefer the single sex grammar given a choice but may need a plan B being the co ed private selective school for ours.
Thanks in advance.

OP posts:

professorplum · 16/12/2007 22:59

I think it varies a lot depending on the area. I imagine that most parents would prefer the free grammar rather than the private so there will be much, much more competition. That doesn't necessairly mean a harder exam but taking a much smaller percentage of applicants will mean the chances of a place are much slimmer. When I was taking my 11+ it was common knowledge which schools were easier to get into. There was a paticular school that everyone hoped to pass and a clear order down to what was considered to be the 'safety' school.

PaulaYatesbiggestfan · 16/12/2007 23:00

harder imho much
in our area if the child fails they usually go private

Quattrocento · 16/12/2007 23:05

The single-sex grammar close to us is vastly oversubscribed and enormously difficult to get into.

smartiejake · 16/12/2007 23:08

The independent school where dd1 goes had an entrance test but don't know anyone who failed. They used it as an assessment for setting. (Don't take much notice of SATs levels)

yurt1 · 16/12/2007 23:09

The 11+ exam is probably easier than common entrance, but you have to do much better on it for most grammer schools than you would have to for most private schools. If you're going for a scholarship that might not be the case. I taught someone for the 13+ when they were applying for a music scholarship to Eton. I was stunned how difficult the Science exam was for the age (and he needed to do very well).

dayofftomorrow · 16/12/2007 23:52

The absolute difficulty of the exam isn't what counts, it is a competition where the number of prizes is the same as the number of places so it all depends on who else is sitting the exam

EmsMum · 17/12/2007 00:08

AFAIK a lot of independents dont use 'Common Entrance' (ie private but not 'public') - they set their own according to their own demographic be it academic/sporty/whatever.

We've seen a couple of sample papers - one looked distinctly easier than the other. Neither looked anything like the 11+ as it was when I took it aeons ago - iirc it was all 'verbal reasoning' IQ test style things. What do they do for 11+ nowadays - that sort of stuff or general tests on Nat. Curric?

Private schools usually have open days or are happy to see prospective parents and give information, just ring up the ones near you and ask for some samples.

AMerryScot · 17/12/2007 07:26

Independent schools cover all ability ranges. In many independent schools, the entrance exam is just to get a feel for the pupil and perhaps offer a scholarship. It doesn't mean that they are being academically selective.

If the school is academically selective, chances are that it will be more selective than a grammar.

AMerryScot · 17/12/2007 07:37

Private schools can set whatever papers they like. It's totally up to them.

Most boys' schools will use the CE papers, or their own paper closely matching the CE. They use the VR/NVR tests at pre-test level 2 years ahead of CE.

Girls' schools can either use the girls' CE, which has papers in English, Mathematics and Science. More common is to set their own papers in English, Mathematics, Verbal and Non-Verbal Reasoning. They might even do some Drama and PE with them on the day.

As for grammar schools near me, they will have anyone in for the 11+, but will set a pass mark. The five grammar schools will set their own grade, one of them as low as 105. Pupils making the grade are then invited to apply for a place in the normal way - ie put in your preference form and let the school offer you a place based on siblings, distance to school etc.

ElenyaTuesday · 17/12/2007 08:09

Where I live I think the tests are fairly comparable - it is just that more children sit the 11+ so the pass mark is higher. For example at one local grammar school 1,900 boys sat the test for about 100 places, whereas at the private school 500 boys usually sit the test for about 90 places.

pukkapatch · 17/12/2007 08:47

depends on th eprivate school.
some are also selective, so are probly jhust as hard to getinto.
others not so. and if your dc is capapbel enought to be in with a chance of a place at a grammar, then the private shouldnt be any harder.
if two thousand apply to the grammar. of those only a samll number will have parentstwho have the private as an option. and of those, some will undoubtecly get itno the grammar. so thecompetiotn will be less stiff.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 17/12/2007 17:03

We have one grammar in the vicinity, which is harder to get into than any of the independents because of the competition. The children who get in are always offered places at the independent they tried for (the 'insurance ). So many, like us, hope for the grammar, as it is free, and gives as good an education as the independents, but will also try for independents as back ups.

PaulaYatesbiggestfan · 19/12/2007 18:57

do you live in Gisburn?

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 19/12/2007 19:16

No - Richmond-Upon-Thames, and the grammar is in Kingston-Upon-Thanmes

Lucycat · 19/12/2007 19:37

This 11+ is a complete anathema to me as we live in Labour North where all authorites (except Trafford) did away with the 11+ in the 1970s.

So I have always been a part of the comprehensive system both as a pupil and a teacher - is it not terribly divisive?

AMerryScot · 19/12/2007 19:46

Kingston Grammar is independent

Bridie3 · 19/12/2007 20:25

Tiffin is the grammar school in Kingston. There's a boys' and a girls' version.

Bridie3 · 19/12/2007 20:28

It CAN be divisive and some would argue that 11 is too young to make such decisions, esp. for boys, who mature later.

That said, the grammar system gave me and my brother excellent (free) educations.

amidaiwish · 19/12/2007 21:37

the grammar test is often way harder than the independent one

my sister got a part scholarship to LEH (very academic girls independent school) but didn't get into Tiffin.

clerkKent · 20/12/2007 12:58

Kingston Grammar (indi) and Tiffin(grammar) are both excellent schools; Kingston has much better facilities, smaller class sizes and more money. They attract national figures to school events, they have loads of off-site activities , and there are very many clubs and societies. Also it is mixed-sex. Tiffin is perhaps more academic and hard working. If I had the money, I would chose Kingston.

DS was offered a place at Tiffin, but he went to another grammar out of the borough.

Anchovy · 20/12/2007 13:04

Those will be some of the schools we will be turning our gaze to in the future (fortunately some way off).

Friends of ours Ds got a full scholarship to Kingston Grammar, which we were obviously pea green with envy delighted with them for.

ClerkKent if your DS was offered a place at Tiffin he did very well indeed.

clerkKent · 20/12/2007 17:06

Thank you. We are thinking of entering DD next year to try for a full scholarship - there is no other way we could afford it!

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