Managed move in school

[Lisamyoung]

Hi I'm hoping I've posted in the right section.

My son is 14 and has just moved to upper school in September. He is diagnosed ASD (PDA) I'm awaiting mediation for an appeal against the refusal of an ehcp. It will be in a fortnight.
My son has been disruptive and defiant since he started at the school. They have been bending over backwards to accommodate his needs.
On Thursday he swore at a staff member, was rude to the head and showed people the blade from a pencil sharpener in his pocket.
He has a 5 day exclusion and school wants to do a managed move to another school.
I don't see the point. He needs to be in a SEN school but has no ehcp. Mainstream school cannot manage him. He has spent so much time in isolation and being excluded that he's barely in any lessons.
What are my options here please.

@Imitatingdory

He didn't actually have an assessment but an EP visited him on the second day at his new school.

So is the appeal a refusal to assess rather than refusal to issue?

Both permanent exclusion and managed moves are possible with an EHCP, but further steps should be taken before them.

No an Educational psychologist visited at school and made recommendations that the LA said school could meet without an ehcp. But my LA doesn't carry out assessments any more you have to pay privately to get them done. It's a refusal to issue. X

They have been bending over backwards to accommodate his needs. it’s obvious they have not.
You need to be in your ds’s side and understand his pda and asd. Referring to him as defiant is not helping him.

So there was an EHCNA, just not including everything it should. Under Regulation 6(1) of the SEND Regulations 2014 as part of an EHCNA by law the LA must seek advice from:
a. the child’s parent or the young person;
b. educational advice (usually from the head teacher or principal);
c. medical advice and information from a health care professional;
d. psychological advice and information from an educational psychologist;
e. advice and information in relation to social care;
f. advice and information from any other person the local authority thinks appropriate;
g. where the child or young person is in or beyond year 9, advice and information in relation to provision to assist the child or young person in preparation for adulthood and independent living; and
h. advice and information from any person the child’s parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from.

You do not have to pay for assessments yourself.

@MyDcAreMarvel

They have been bending over backwards to accommodate his needs. it’s obvious they have not. You need to be in your ds’s side and understand his pda and asd. Referring to him as defiant is not helping him.

This is unhelpful. I have done everything I possibly can for my son. He moved from a school who ignored his ASD diagnosis and were useless to a school who have tried to accommodate his needs while sticking to their non disruption policies. I understand better than anyone his PDA and ASD diagnosis but not everyone does and a way to describe his behaviour is defiant to those who don't know. So if referring to him as defiant is helping others to understand what help I'm asking for. I'm having a really hard time with this and looking for advice on the best way to support my son. Do you have any useful advice?

@Imitatingdory

So there was an EHCNA, just not including everything it should. Under Regulation 6(1) of the SEND Regulations 2014 as part of an EHCNA by law the LA must seek advice from: a. the child’s parent or the young person; b. educational advice (usually from the head teacher or principal); c. medical advice and information from a health care professional; d. psychological advice and information from an educational psychologist; e. advice and information in relation to social care; f. advice and information from any other person the local authority thinks appropriate; g. where the child or young person is in or beyond year 9, advice and information in relation to provision to assist the child or young person in preparation for adulthood and independent living; and h. advice and information from any person the child’s parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from.

You do not have to pay for assessments yourself.

He had assessments done with the first ehcp request and so they used them even though they were 2 years out of date. He scored well on them so they were not prepared to retest.

Well that was my advice, if you had clarified that you didn’t view your son as defiant it would have made more sense. People giving advice most likely do have children with SEN though so maybe just say it how it is.
The school could do far more, the reasonable adjustments to their “policies” are simply not good enough. If you view the school as having done everything they could when they clearly haven’t then you can’t advocate as effectively for your ds.
The school can’t meet his needs, he can’t currently access a special school so the best way to support him is through EOTAS or home education.

@MyDcAreMarvel

Well that was my advice, if you had clarified that you didn’t view your son as defiant it would have made more sense. People giving advice most likely do have children with SEN though so maybe just say it how it is. The school could do far more, the reasonable adjustments to their “policies” are simply not good enough. If you view the school as having done everything they could when they clearly haven’t then you can’t advocate as effectively for your ds. The school can’t meet his needs, he can’t currently access a special school so the best way to support him is through EOTAS or home education.

I'm sorry but you have no idea what his school has done to accommodate him. I have not listed what adjustments they've made for him cause I'd be here all night. Without an ehcp they've done all they can. He was swearing at a teacher and had a blade in his pocket. I love my son and will always advocate for him to the best of my abilities. I'm looking for actual advice, not to be told I'm a crappy mother for asking for advice on how to help my child.

Legally, existing reports can only be used if the LA, you and the report writers consider them to be sufficient, including up to date. ‘Scoring well’ is irrelevant if you mean that they showed DS is cognitively able. Was DS assessed by OT, SALT, psychiatrist or clinical psychologist?

You need to read up about the EHCP process.

Have the school applied for high needs top up funding? Have they looked at using alternative provision?

Have you got independent reports for tribunal?

Do not deregister and EHE, it will make getting support harder.

It’s a while ago that I was involved in these, but a managed move is a sixteen week programme with reviews involving both schools every two weeks and a formal review after eight. The child remains on roll at the original school until the end of the process. If successful, the child is enrolled at the new school. If unsuccessful, the child remains on roll at the original school and they should look at alternative arrangements.

Is there a short stay PRU that he might get a place at? I don’t know whether it’s still the case, but we were able to send children there for part of the week, whilst in school for the remainder. It’s supposed to be quite short term, maybe a term or half a term.

If he is permanently excluded, you can appeal the exclusion. If he is out of school, there is an obligation to provide work for him. The LA must seek to find another school for him, but it will be mainstream which is not what you want.

It’s difficult to see, without knowing the situation, what type of school you would think suitable, but it’s rare to get a special school placement of any type, and without an EHCP, not at all, I’d think.

Are there college courses he could access early with support from school? It does sound as though you feel the school has tried to be supportive, from what you’re saying.

It’s a minefield OP and I feel for you.

Oh my goodness. We have an EHCP. Council have overturned their decision to refuse after considering the recent context.
I'm hoping that this will be a bit of a game changer for us. Need to look at SEN schools locally and hope there is a space for him.

Good news! Once you have the draft EHCP make sure section F has all the necessary provision in it and it is detailed, specific and quantified. Otherwise if it has woolly, vague wording such as “access to”, “would benefit from” or “or equivalent” it isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

Unless the school you want is wholly independent the LA can only refuse to name your preference if they can prove:

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

There’s no legal definition of ‘full’, and on its own being full is not enough of a reason to refuse admission. The LA have to prove the school is so full placing DS there is incompatible. If the LA cannot do this they can, and must, name the school regardless of the school’s objections.

Thank you so much for this information. X

Lisa, I am in a similar position to you with my 14 year old who is on a MM which I fear is going to fail. I am about to appeal the LA's decision to not carry out an ECHNA. Please could you tell me what you did to make your appeal successful?

Hi, it took me 4 years to get an ehcp for my son. It was refused twice. He moved up to upper school and we had a great senco who was very supportive and that was key for us. It's all about gathering evidence. I printer off monthly calendars. If he was put into isolation I would colour the day in purple, if he was excluded I coloured it red, if he attended all lessons it was yellow. It was amazing to have a clear visual sense of just how much school he was missing out on. The senco asked all his teachers to comment on how he was progressing in their classes. Some teachers had never met him half way through the school year! We had a few meetings with an educational psychologist who eventually realised that the school could not manage his needs. Even then we were refused the ehcp and I decided to appeal this time. A date was given for mediation. My son then got excluded for 5 days and school were discussing a MM. I called the sen lead dealing with our case to find out options and he spoke to his manager and we got the ehcp! We then had another meeting with the educational psychologist and pushed to go to panel to be considered for sen school. I thought that he would be automatically considered for sen if he had the ehcp but not. We went to panel twice and they agreed that he required sen. After seeing the calendars. I included lists of the reasons he was excluded and put in isolation - many were ridiculous. I worked out how much school time he'd spent in maths English and science and it was about 20-30% of lessons. The comments from teachers, copies of emails from teachers I had received saying how hard it was to teach him. I printed it all out and drove it all to them to make sure they got it. He is now in an amazing school for asd pupils and looks to be taking some of his gcses a year early! Collect evidence, anything you deem relevant, throw it in. Support from senco is key. I also had supporting letters from CAMHS and a therapist who had been having sessions with him. I wish you the best of luck 🤞 xx

Hi, it took me 4 years to get an ehcp for my son. It was refused twice. He moved up to upper school and we had a great senco who was very supportive and that was key for us. It's all about gathering evidence. I printer off monthly calendars. If he was put into isolation I would colour the day in purple, if he was excluded I coloured it red, if he attended all lessons it was yellow. It was amazing to have a clear visual sense of just how much school he was missing out on. The senco asked all his teachers to comment on how he was progressing in their classes. Some teachers had never met him half way through the school year! We had a few meetings with an educational psychologist who eventually realised that the school could not manage his needs. Even then we were refused the ehcp and I decided to appeal this time. A date was given for mediation. My son then got excluded for 5 days and school were discussing a MM. I called the sen lead dealing with our case to find out options and he spoke to his manager and we got the ehcp! We then had another meeting with the educational psychologist and pushed to go to panel to be considered for sen school. I thought that he would be automatically considered for sen if he had the ehcp but not. We went to panel twice and they agreed that he required sen. After seeing the calendars. I included lists of the reasons he was excluded and put in isolation - many were ridiculous. I worked out how much school time he'd spent in maths English and science and it was about 20-30% of lessons. The comments from teachers, copies of emails from teachers I had received saying how hard it was to teach him. I printed it all out and drove it all to them to make sure they got it. He is now in an amazing school for asd pupils and looks to be taking some of his gcses a year early! Collect evidence, anything you deem relevant, throw it in. Support from senco is key. I also had supporting letters from CAMHS and a therapist who had been having sessions with him. I wish you the best of luck 🤞 xx

What a brilliant update! Well done @Lisamyoung

Great outcome and update, OP. Make sure the EHCP has all the support specified and quantified before agreeing it, so that your son gets what he needs. Hopefully you will have helped others who need to know what evidence to gather. Have a great Christmas!