Moving back to UK with DC going into year 10 and year 5

[JunieSpoony]

This is looking a few years ahead, juggling timings to work with everyone's situation as best we can.

How hard will it be to find school places for those years? And how far in advance will we need to start the process?

I don't know where we'll be, will depend on getting jobs. Almost certainly England (will be applying to London and midlands), with a slight possibility of Cardiff.

Could you consider year 9 return instead to give your eldest time to settle befure starting GCSE ms in year 10?

Or wait till post qualification/post year 11.

Earlier the better. I’ve dealt with families who can’t get school places for their 15/16 year old.

I think that is a 'how long is a piece of string' question.

Good, popular schools will almost by definition be full.
Less good, less popular ones will be more likely to have spaces, though this isn't guaranteed.

You may be lucky and someone leaves in the desired year group at the desired school at the right time.

The local authority would have to find you places somewhere, but it may not be at the schools you want, and may have a commute.

Unless you have been at a British school, you may want to consider moving back a year earlier. Many schools start at least some of the GCSE syllabus in y9, and anyway it will provide an adjustment time before the big pressure years.

Broadly speaking you can't apply until you are resident at an address in the UK (unless diplomats (?or forces??)

I agree. I would be moving earlier if possible or a later after GCSEs. Moving into year 5 and year 10 means your children would be entering a new school and a new country in quite difficult years.
Moving a year earlier in year 4 and 9 would definitely be a better plan if it was an option. If not depending on the school you may really struggle especially with a year 5 place as there tends to be much less movements in the later years of primary.

A year earlier is tricky because of an older DC finishing schooling here. In fact, any earlier is tricky because of that.

We could quite easily wait two years, but then would be in the awkward situation of being non-resident for university fees (requires three years of residence) even though we would have moved our lives back by then.

Would year 9 be an easier entry point in terms of school places as well as settling for a year before GCSEs, do you think?

I should have mentioned, it will be state schools.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll clearly have to have a bit of a rethink! Because of school year cut offs/birthdays, the oldest one would have a year in hand compared to Uk students of the same age (i.e. he will finish high school here at the age of 17.5, December birthday, school year cut off Dec 31) so maybe we can play with that somehow.

Some schools begin their GCSE curriculum in Year 9. Something to consider.

Have you checked how the qualification equates to a U.K. qualification?

Year 10 is tricky as an entry point mid gcse options. Will your dc have covered the same curriculum to enable them to join smoothly? Subject choices may not match or be available. The LA has to offer a space in the relevant year group but it may not be at a school close by or of your choosing. Presumably your eldest won't qualify for uni Home Fee status now anyway.

It's all getting a bit complicated as I realised I have wrongly calculated which DC are in the same school year and which are different. (Why doesn't Mumsnet have a facepalm emoji?!)

Eldest wants to do his degree in Canada but probably gap year with us working in UK plus some travelling, and he has a good and affordable option lined up for that, so don't need to worry about home fees status for him.

The new calculations mean if we delayed one year they could start in years 12 and 7, which I am assuming is a lot easier as long as we have an address from which to apply for secondary schools in enough time.

If someone moved back (UK citizen, not sure if that is relevant) for A levels and then did a gap year, would that count as three years for home fee status, or would it be considered playing the system?

Years 12 and 7 are entry points and many kids swap schools then. However you may find places limited as you won't meet the usual application deadlines for year 7. Year 12 is probably more flexible but you may not be able to apply until resident. A gap year should count towards the three year residency for Student Finance.

OK, I advise families moving to and from UK about school entry etc.

There are a lot of points raised by your post.
Depending on your circumstances, you may not need ot wait for the 3 years. If you are UK based, but have been working overseas, you can still claim residency for uni fees. Ultimatley it is down to each uni, some are easier than others, and they require different proof, eg some consider having a house here of evidence that UK is your permanent base, others don't require this. In order to claim you need evidence from your employer that your contract overseas was not permanent and that you always intended to return to the UK at some point.

Second point. Entry to schools at year 7 and 12 is both easier and harder.
Easier because all the places are up for grabs, so you get a chance of a place, but harder in that in order to apply you need to be resident here.
year 7 - you must be resident (not just having an address but living at it) on October 31st of year 6, which is when the applications have to be in. If you are not resident but have an address and use it, you may lose your place due to fraud. If you apply and say you WILL be resident but are not NOW, etc, they will process you as a late application, ie, all the places are given out and then you get what is left. It is illegal to apply of you are not resident at the address.
Some LA will check, (especially in areas of high demand) and some won't bother. Any application after 31st October is a late application and processed after all the other places are given out. The places are allocated by the Local Authority, not the school.

year 12, applications vary, usually Jan/Feb. This is Sixth Form entry for A levels. You will need GCSE or equivalent. If they are not doing IGCSE where you are, then you can find what the equivalents are on the foreign office website. Cut off days for applications for sixth form don't really apply. There is usually a minimum entry requirement. Some sixth forms are school based, some are separate sixth form colleges. Either way everyone has to apply for the places, and it is based on GCSE results. So you are offered a provisional place assuming you get your results (results come out in August)

If you return in other school years, you do a mid year application. You can do this from where you are, but some LA will insist you wait until you are in the country.

please note that moving back when you are a teen is very hard. Please make sure you fit round exams, so years 10 and 11 both need to be done here, or neither.

Also consider for your kids some transition /debriefing when they move.

Are you in Australia? If so you may struggle to enter into year 12 as there’s no Australian GCSE equivalent

Thank you all, especially @steppemum. Really useful info. In Canada, so it sounds similar to Australia in that we have no qualifications at 16. I've also thought about online GCSEs, at least English and Maths.

They have spent a decent amount of time in the UK, although obviously not in the past two years.

If one parent is resident but the children are not, would that also be considered a late application for year 7 places?

It's all so much more complicated than when we left the UK with one tiny baby! At least I have a bit of time to think about it.

I really appreciate all the info.

You would need the child to be resident to apply, so it wouldn't work for a parent to move back earlier.

If the kids are not resident in England (and you arent crown servants,think that's the right terminology, or military) you can't apply for state schools in England. You physically need to be in the country- and we were asked to supply aeroplane tickets and boarding cards to prove when we arrived. Basically, forget about schools until you have a job, then look for housing near the job and decent schools. Once you are here, apply for schools.
What you want to avoid is an area with a handful of excellent schools, and the rest pretty poor. A place where all schools are reasonable would be more likely to result in acceptable school places.

FWIW, we moved (back to) an area with excellent schools to the East, and sink schools to the West. We came back for Y4 and Y6, and then almost immediately made a secondary school application for our oldest.

Can some of you come back earlier than the others. So the oldest and one parent remains in Canada to finish schooling there, while the other parent and the younger kids come back for Y9 and primary? Basically splitbtye family for a while.

I'd come back for years 9 and 5 if possible. Could one of you remain in Canada for an extra 9 months to see the oldest through?

Coming for year 12 with no GCSE equivalent will be difficult, unless you have £££ for a private school that has experience of international students and can arrange a suitable programme.

Thanks everyone, so much to think about!

It will be really hard to do online GCSE equivalents enough to get into sixth form. You would need probably to stop school and do it as full time online school (not impossible though, there are several online high schools)
I am not familiar with Canadian curriculum, but I know that the US curriculum is very different and so you need teaching for the specifics of the GCSEs.

It is not impossible to come back into year 12, but you will need to do some research as to how you prove the academic level of your kids.
One thing they will continually hit is that for many things they need to show they have maths and English GCSE at at least a level 4.
Not a problem if all their education is outside the UK system, but may be a problem if some is and some isn't.

@titchy

I'd come back for years 9 and 5 if possible. Could one of you remain in Canada for an extra 9 months to see the oldest through?

Coming for year 12 with no GCSE equivalent will be difficult, unless you have £££ for a private school that has experience of international students and can arrange a suitable programme.

this is excellent advice, and would certainly be your easiest route.

My niece started school in the uk in Y12 having moved from the States. It wasnt hard to get her a 6th form place - they applied whilst still in the States and the school was happy to use her High School transcripts as proof of academic ability.