A level advice wanted: Geography, maths, computer science and ????

[Porcupineintherough]

Ds1 is choosing his A level options. He's tentatively picked 3, including his favourites CS and geography, but needs a 4th to go with them. Was vaguely thinking about a degree in engineering but wants to keep his options open. His ??? for a 4th are further maths (capable but not keen), physics (so so) or a BTEC in engineering. Has ruled out chemistry and biology.

Thoughts please.

Why is he doing four? No need at all. Does he drop one in due course or what?

I would check out what's needed for engineering at uni btw as I believe chemistry is often needed or useful.

Btw if you do FM you have got to be very keen on maths as it is half your timetable. What is his predicted grade in maths?

He's predicted 9s across the board (French excepted) so that's not a problem. It's typical at his school to start with 4 A levels, some then drop one after AS.

Chemistry doesnt seem to be required for engineering, unless of course it's chemical engineering. His school have an excellent chemistry department and he's still not enthused so I think that one is out.

From an engineering pov I think the best thing he could choose is further maths but, as you say, that's a lot of maths.

At our school, pupils only do 4 A levels if 2 of them are maths and FM.

Either physics or FM would support engineering ambitions, and a fair amount of other STEM degrees.

I don't think chemistry is required for engineering except for chemical engineering, but it is a generally useful subject for STEM courses.

Or do engineering instead of maths and take Core Maths AS level - it's a 1 year course so in year 2 he just has 3 to concentrate on..?

No EPQ on offer?

Yes there is the opportunity to do an epq but not on top of 4 A levels, unless they include maths and further maths. He could, I guess, do the 3 he's chosen and an EPQ, that's actually a good possible plan.

@jackstini the one thing all engineering courses seem to demand is a maths a level.

Dds academic indie has dropped 4 a levels except FM. They encourage 3 and maybe core maths/epq and a lot of the Art students take Film AS

Does the school actually do AS? I thought that was not a thing at all in England any more. Apols if you are not in England op.

I do not get this thing where schools insist on four A levels tho. A levels are hard. Why do an extra one you don't need?

Our school does a couple of ASs and is in England.

If he wants to do engineering then he really needs physics and maths.
I think some unis which allow engineering BTEC as an alternative to just A levels require an A level in maths alongside it.

I'd have him do the EPQ. It pretty much counts as half an A level and some unis accept one grade lower if the EPQ is a high grade. Also it's the opportunity to research something he's interested in, and not necessarily related to what he wants to do career wise. My daughter is most likely going into the creative arts but her EPQ is on how technology has affected language.

I thought AS had disappeared in England too but it seems not. The school dont insist you sit four, they like you to do 4 in Y12, I guess to give wriggle room if you dont like 1. But a fair few do continue w 4, although like you I have my doubts. It's a lot of work and 3 good grades may be preferable to 4 ok ones and a breakdown.

Am liking the idea of either 4 (if one is further maths) or 3 plus an epq, will see what his nibs thinks.

I do not get this thing where schools insist on four A levels tho.

Starting four is a good idea, in case it turns out one of the subjects is too much of a 'step up' at A level, or they find they don't like it. And to keep their options open if they're not sure what they want to do.

If the pupil is sure they want to do engineering (other than chemical) or physics, (or maths or comp sci) and there's no doubt about their ability to 'step up', then physics, maths and FM is the perfect trio if only three are allowed. But if they aren't sure of their interests or ability then that's too narrow and risky.

Hmmm, I dont think ability is an issue here (although he'd have to bloody work - he is hard working) but I dont think he would feel the passion for maths+fm+physics and I worry about him having nothing that lights that spark.

Anyway... maths is definitely a good idea. If he wants to to CS and geography, then physics would perhaps be best for keeping options open. Not doing FM (at a school which offers it) would effectively rule out a few specific courses at a few specific unis but wouldn't rule out any degree subject entirely.

Those four would allow for most engineering, physics, comp sci, maths and geography courses. (i know someone who did geog at Cambridge with A levels in geog, maths, physics and an English lit AS). And probably quite a lot of non STEM options too.

Thanks all. I will put your collective wisdom to him so he can have a think.

If hard maths and physics don't light the spark, does he have a more practical interest in engineering? (My DD has just finished her MEng and there's a lot of hard maths in it, and physics based stuff too, as well as the practical aspects.)

(If you've got the ability, maths does become a lot more interesting at A level compared to GCSE)

What does light his spark at the moment?

Well, tbf, it's hard to tell. He's quite laid back by nature so spontaneous displays of enthusiasm are rare (this may also be age related).

He's never done any hard maths so no idea if he'd like it, beyond the satisfaction of mastering a new concept.

He likes programming and in particular the problem solving aspects of that. With engineering again he likes the computer design aspects and the problem solving.

And he likes geography the more he does of it. Particularly the physical geography but also just understanding how the world around him works (I have pointed out physics would help him understand how the universe around him works).

Sounds like he's heading for a deee w includes environmental engineering!

Do check out the Smallpeice Trust courses - they ran one on humanitarian engineering last year.

And have him look at computer engineering (not computer science) - could be right his street, but I think it would be a tough course without FM

Thanks @GlacindaTheTroll, will do. I'd love it if he became an environmental engineer (dh and I are both conservationists) but obviously he's not on this earth to please us .

Do they offer any new-to-him subjects, like economics or business? Might be good try a different one.

Earth / environmental sciences degree courses might fit the bill? Maths and geography A levels would usually fulfil the required subjects. Physics would certainly be useful, and economics could also work well.

Would usually need a science A level alongside maths for environmental engineering though - physics would be ideal as there will be cross over with the maths content.

I am not an expert on engineering but a quick search of a few courses shows that either physics or chemistry would be useful. Both unis I searched wanted either phys or chem for a variety of engineering degrees, not just chemical engineering.

So if he is genuinely interested in engineering then that might be the shout.

Re 4 A levels and giving you a choice to drop one - well, OK, but in that case why not do 5, or 6? Then you can drop the three you like least? I'm being flippant but I genuinely don't understand saddling yourself with extra work just so you can drop one later. Decide now already. After all, you are deciding to drop MFL/history/English or whatever.

Engineering at uni really is a lot of maths. If he’s not keen on it/doesn’t find it easy Id caution being the right degree for him and as such do what you can now to keep options open.