10+

[edim76]

Hello!
I have a dilemma... My DS is in Y5 in a state school at the moment. He's very bright and is currently doing maths with Y6. We will definitely try to get in a grammar (But they are all so far away!) or a public school next year, but I was wondering if maybe we should also take the 10+ at City this year so he can try to move to a more challenging Y6?
The problem I have is that IF and only IF he gets in, then is it that bad if next year we tried for a different secondary? I just feel this year we do not have a choice as only few have the 10+ entry and we have already missed Emanuel's deadline (DS didn't really like it though).
We have only done virtual tours and if he could choose he would prefer Dulwich College, City would be so far no.2.
Should we stay put and just try them all next year? I just feel it would be a bit of a wasted year in his current school. He does not feel challenged enough!
Thanks in advance for any advice!

This is something I am thinking about too. I’d like to go for the 10+ as it feels like an easier ride than the 11+ and I feel he’ll get a lot more out of year 6 this way and generally have a happy few years while still quite young. I definitely wouldn’t move him after 1 year but I do wonder about potential lost opportunities by not being able to apply to some top schools that don’t offer the 10+, eg Westminster. I’m wondering whether it’s worth going for the 13+ for those schools. It would mean 4 years at the new school and then, if he got a place, the. 4 years at the subsequent school. I’ve not seen much discussion of this route so it seems fairly unusual.

Yes, probably I would not move him if he's super happy there, but I would support him to try his favourite even if after only 1 year.
The only school I know in London still open for 10+ is City, does anyone know of any other one? My only concern with CLS is the fact that it is so urban! And we will never be able to move anywhere close. I was planning to move close to our secondary to avoid DS any long commute and also being able to socialise locally. ...

If you want something less central-urban, have you considered Trinity and/or Whitgift?

@HonorHiding

If you want something less central-urban, have you considered Trinity and/or Whitgift?

Actually (looking at their websites) Trinity’s 10+ registration closed yesterday, but Whitgift’s closes on 12 November.

Agree, our plan is for 10+ at Trinity, Whitgift and City. If you’re thinking of Dulwich, you could live in SE London and have the option of any of these schools.

@HonorHiding

If you want something less central-urban, have you considered Trinity and/or Whitgift?

I had discarded Croydon all together! Not a fan...

OP how long have you been investigating the London private school sector?

I don't mean to sound off, but I will tell you that it is incredibly hard to get into the selective schools, not because your DS is not clever enough, there just seems to be too many applicants for the spaces.

So you may well find that Croydon and Emmanuel may well feature on your list soon enough, unless you are fine with less academic schools, and it does not sound like you are. Also on closer inspection, you will find schools like Whitgift offer facilities matched by few and are incredibly rare. So called 'back up' schools no longer exist in London nowadays from the looks of it. Infact the schools you mention are incredibly hard to get into. One day you should go to Clapham Junction and see the hoards of DC going to Whitgift, you would be shocked at how far they come from.

I agree with you that getting in at 10+ is a better option. Taking them to a prep till 13+ even better (the schools have relationships, and this is what prep schools prepare for, and may help your DS win a scholarship, you may not have expected). I know parents who were tearing their hair out at 11+ from state and their DC did not know a lot of things, even science lab rules etc. If your DC is not challenged I can see why you need to move him. I also think schools tend to be more lenient with state students admissions at 10+

Co-incidentally, I know someone who moved their DS from City to one of the top selective after one year - they had no issues with city, just how things panned out.

The not very central schools have coaches, but it depends on where you are. From your selection I assume, closer to the East.

For anyone else, do ring up the school if you just marginally missed the deadline, some even selective may be accommodating.

Mummy195, thanks for the reply. I am based in Islington. We have a long list of private schools, Emanuel is on our list of 11+, along with Dulwich, Alleyn, Highgate, The Harrodian, Eltham, Latymer, Colfe...( We will shortlist to 5 after open/virtual tours I think) I just genuinely don't feel I would want to live close to Croydon! I work from home, single mum so I don't mind moving if my DS gets in a private school that is not close to us. If he doesn't then it means it is not meant to be and he'll go to our local St Mary Magdalene Academy! Not the end of the world. He has decided he wants to try even if the chances are so slim!

Balham is very close to most of those schools - you don't have to live in Croydon. Balham has more of a smaller Islington vibe. Including Emmanuel.

Emmanuel will be way too easy for your son (who is doing y6 maths). We visited it with our older son (pre covid) and discarded it because the maths was too easy. He was y5 at the time and the maths books “on show” as great example of maths was stuff he could already do at 8 or 9. No offence to Emmanuel, but sounds like your son needs a far more academic school. Have you thought about St. Paul’s, city of London, kings Wimbledon? They all do, or did, 10+. You may have missed the deadlines, or get going today, perhaps their deadlines are Friday, tomorrow!

I see you’ve considered city of London. Good stuff.

St Paul's and Kings do not have a 10+ entry.

Kings has a small differed entry for state DC. But they would start in yr7. St Pauls stopped doing deferred around 3yrs ago.

So Kings has 9+ (yr5) and 10+deffered and 11+ entry (both start in yr7).
St Pauls 11+ entry.

As a side :
OP I'm not here to convince you about Croydon schools, but for anyone else reading this for research purposes, I wanted to clarify. A high number of students at those schools are not from croydon (around 80% I would say come from outside), around 600 connect at CJ - coming from different areas including those who chose them over local schools and as far as Victoria, Clapham, Barnes and I have heard of Hampstead too. Loads of Wimbledon students who actually have 2 coaches and trams and trains.

In my work I have dealt with the Whitgift foundation and its schools and I was impressed by their pastoral care and the foundation values in general, hence I recommend them.

I also wanted to mention Trinity and Whitgift. We are nowhere near Croydon, but these are schools a lot of DS’ classmates are looking into. None of them have plans to move to Croydon. They are good schools with a popular coach service to all parts of London.

Thank you all. I will then re-consider Trinity and Whitgift for our 11+ list.
I know a lot of kids travel from miles away, and I find this admirable. Some families cannot simply move for one child. I just think travelling an hour on a coach there and another our back is a a lot of time for a child/young adult! It feels like the start already the commuting delirium!
Plus no local socialising with class mates that might be from a totally different part of the city...Since I don't have to commute I wanted to avoid my DS to do it by moving closer to the next school...

@edim76 Trinity is 15 minutes by drive from Beckenham and 25 minutes by drive from Croydon so my point was that you don’t have to move to Croydon to go to Trinity. Don’t discount it because it’s postcode says Croydon!

To answer your first question, 10+ is great if your heart is set on one of the 10+ schools or if you want practice. 11+ offers more choice and probability of getting in, hence it being such a popular choice. I would personally use 10+ as practice and then look at 11+ seriously, also because I have a sporty DS who wouldn’t enjoy being at CLS.

@TypsTrycks thank you! Yes, That's what I thought we would do...practice now just to get a feel of a similar exam. Also my DD is really keen to move school for lack of motivation. I realise I am not the right person to practice the exams with though and am considering finding a tutor... I cuddle, cook, organize adventures, facilitate playdates...but when it comes to school I'm too serious! Not fun at all. As much as I try.....

Mary Mags is a great option to have.

We thought about 10+ for our son but didn't love City above all others so decided not to. I think it would be madness to do 10+, get in, move schools, do the grammar schools exams (which is in very early September so you'd be having to juggle starting a new school with the exams and would probably have to miss a few days). Then possibly leave for one of the grammars at the end of the year. Or do the other 11+ for other private schools which are at the end of December/beginning of January.

Only do the 10+ if you really want City and he'd definitely stay. Also, and this might be just me, I felt loyalty to the primary school and didn't want to remove one of the SATs achievers from their statistics for the last year. Plus y6 is a bit of a right of passage - they get too big for their boots, bicker amongst themselves, lord it over the rest of the school, have a leavers' disco etc, etc.

And I really don't think you have to move to Croydon or anywhere for schools. There are loads in North London and presumably you've got friends and support networks where you are. Personally I'd much prefer to live in Islington and have my clever kid at Mags (with lots of other clever kids) than move that far away.

@edim76 A tutor is recommended if you can’t do the exam familiarisation yourself. I took on the tutoring myself but it was an every day job! And it’s difficult if they don’t listen to you. Absolutely hire a tutor for a few months if you think you will struggle with it.

You could consider Dulwich Prep which prepares for the 11+ and the 13+

I think if you can get an occasional place there for year 6 it would be a good compromise compared to going to City for a year and then moving

I think it’s better to try CLS10+ Exam before making any plans, you might be surprised how tough it is to get in, especially at 10+.. Doing maths with year 6 won’t cut it for sure. It’s nothing like Dulwich/Trinity level and they look for a certain type of a boy, so just passing the exam is not enough, you also have to impress at the interview stage, which is much harder than the exam itself.

Waterloo1 Thank you. I am probably being too hopeful! Are you saying that Dulwich/Trinity are easier to get in?

Yes, Dulwich/Trinity exams are easier, they offer more places and their interviews are not as academic as city. City exam is on par with Westminster and the likes, so some questions are closer to 13+ than 10/11+ and testing a different set of skills. They also look for a certain type of a child, that will fit well with other boys at the school. I don’t know your son’s academic level, but I am impressed that you see city as merely a backup option, as I know kids that got offers from Westminster but failed to get an offer at CLS.

Has your DS tried the sample 10+ papers on City’s website?

By all accounts they are not especially gentle with candidates at interview, even at 10+. We briefly considered an attempt at their 10+, but concluded that DS might well end up discouraged rather than boosted by the experience.

My son thought that the sample papers were nothing like the actual exam and the interview left him shellshocked (compared to other schools). He got an offer and we gratefully accepted, but it was not a “walk in the park” and quite a gruelling experience.

Waterloo1 Understood. I think the fact that they look for a 'type' of boy is actually good, so if they don't get picked it means they would not have settled in well. JessyCarr We have tried the sample papers. And are working on the things he needs to improve on. I had made up my mind this is not an ideal school in terms of location/facilities and it is probably out of his league anyway, but DS insisted he still wanted to try! I think the discouragement depends on personality so it is up to us parents to try and assess it and intervene if we see fit. That's not to say I'm never wrong!