BTEC instead of a GCSE?

[CinnamonEstella]

Dd is 14, choosing GCSE options for next year.

She has 4 choices, and will be doing the EBacc (Spanish, German, History) for 3 of them.

School "encourages" a creative or practical subject for at least one.

Dd really wants to do Travel and Tourism BTEC.

DH and I are fine with this, it seems like the sort of thing Dd is interested in and goes well with the languages, will be an interesting change from other subjects, fewer exams, likely to be a small class, fulfils the requirement to do something more practical etc.

Everyone else, literally everyone I have spoken to have made a face, said it is a waste of time, universities won't like it, she will only have 8 GCSES, she should do business instead, the travel industry has no future, everyone else in the class will mess around etc.

I don't want to give Dd bad advice. I think it's a perfectly valid choice. But I'm taken aback by the negativity.

Should we support dd's choice? The only other thing she might like to do is RE, which is obviously more academic.
But 1 BTEC and 8 GCSES should be fine, shouldn't it?

Of course it's fine. Unis don't care about GCSEs as long as you have 8 including M and E.

As long as she has her English and Maths GCSEs she will be fine. Possibly a science depending on what she wants to do going forward. Everything else - unless she's looking to go to Oxbridge - is pretty much forgotten about as soon as they're onto the next stage.

She should do what she's going to enjoy. It's a lot of work if she's not!

I'm half and half here.
I don't see anything wrong with a BTEC at GCSE level. It provides a different way of learning and will lighten revision load in summer of y11. I don't think universities will care what she did as a last choice.

However I would still have concerns:

1. It is more likely that T&T would be chosen by less academic pupils, who may well be choosing it as the 'least bad' option rather than as an active choice iyswim. This could lead to lessons being pitched at a lower level and also behaviour issues.
2. My DD1 did T&T at college, level 3. Some of it was interesting, some of it highly repetitive and much less interesting. There was far more written and far less 'real practical' than we anticipated/were led to believe. You also have to hit the ground running as assignments count from the start.

If doing the BTEC I would strongly suggest you ask some searching questions on

• what the spec of the course is
• how it is taught, what level of independent research is required, do they get clear feedback on assignments etc
• what type of 'outputs' are going to be required
• have they taught it before, can you see example outputs to get a better idea
• how will they ensure your DD gets a chance to do/learn the distinction elements if she is able enough
• a promise on behaviour

I agree with TeenMinusTests about the questions to ask. Have any of the discouragers been her teachers? It would be good to know what the school think about the choice - they might try and steer her away if they don't think it's the right thing for her.

However I don't think it's going to disadvantage her if that's what she wants to do. Does she know what she wants to do beyond GCSE?

Yeo what @TeenMinusTests said. Nothing wrong with a Btec as one among 8 GCSEs at all.

However, IME T and T is taken by some as an easy option and this can mean poor behaviour. Ask questions of the teachers. Would messing about by others annoy Yr dd?

I'd have fewer concerns if it was e.g. a BTEC Food course, given how much theory there is in the GCSE.

Dd would definitely be bothered by others messing about - she dismissed the performance arts BTEC for that reason - but I think T&T doesn't have the same group work component, so may be less of an issue?

It looks like mainly individual coursework drawing maps and planning travel itineraries for different types of customers plus one final exam. Dd thinks it sounds absolutely brilliant, all the bits of geography she enjoys with none of the wading around in oxbow lakes!

I know it is usually a smallish group taking it, around 15 of them - we have been given the numbers from last year for information. It looks like about half got distinctions last year.

Behaviour would perhaps be better in the RE class, that's true, even though it's a full class of 30.
It would be a shame though if she couldn't do something she enjoys because of the behaviour of others.

Detractors have mainly been other parents - we haven't had the meetings with teachers yet, that's later in the term. Will see what they say - thank you for the very helpful list of questions to ask.

GCSEs do matter for university - the grades are important, however if there is one BTEC along side the 8 GCSEs is absolutely fine.
Universities look at the GCSE grades - of course will depend upon the university and course. Many students choose one course at GCSE that is more enjoyable and that is perfectly sensible.

If half got distinctions last year that is a good sign I think.

A good sign it’s a bit too easy. There is a reason why grammar schools don’t offer these courses. It will make zero difference in the future whether she goes into travel and tourism
or not. There’s no jobs at the moment. Most of T&T is common sense and can be learned on the job. If she’s aiming higher and wanting management anywhere, go for economics or business studies. The skills are more transferable.

Tizerorfizz, that's pretty much exactly what everyone else is saying! Are you a parent at Dd's school?!

She definitely doesn't want to do business studies, and school don't offer economics at GCSE. (And if they did, I'm sure she wouldn't want to do that either.)

She wouldn't particularly be doing it because it's 'useful', just because she has to take 9 subjects, and this seems like one she'd enjoy and be good at.

I do get your point though - I had a grammar education and they wouldn't have dreamt of offering something like this, which is what's making me doubt myself a bit.

DD13 is thinking the same but doing a Health & Social Care BTEC alongside her GCSEs. She's predicted pretty much all 8/9s. Would people have same concerns about a health & social care btec?

She will choose options beginning next year and am trying not to overthink it. I went to a good uni and have a great job now, but genuinely can't remember last time anyone asked me about my degree let alone my GCSEs!

Maths, 2 English, 2 science, 2 MFL and History is a solid academic load.

Would it matter if the 9th is T&T and a bit easier if she enjoys it and finds it interesting? It would hopefully develop a slightly different skills set (depending on syllabus and how it is taught).

Unless she's struggling I would suggest avoiding btecs at that level, they don't have the academic rigour of the equivalent gcse. A better practical gcse would be food tec, pe, drama or music

I don’t see the need to do a vocational course at 14. If someone is academic it looks like an easy option. Adults don’t get asked about GCSEs very often but I think if goes on UCAS. Why not do a broad range of GCSEs if you are intelligent. Kids at a grammar or independent would!

I wouldn't touch Btec with a bargepole. Especially at her age.

Wow some animosity to BTECs on this thread!

OP, I honestly do not think it is an issue to have a BTEC on your list.

DS2 had offers from RG unis with PE - often considered here as an easy and soft GCSE. In fact he did PE A level as well . DD meanwhile had GCSE drama on hers, again "soft" allegedly.

Unless you are planning on Oxford or Cambridge (which she may be) then even the grades of her GCSEs don't really matter. Both DS2 and DD had a couple of 6s/Bs on their list (oh no!) and as I say, offers were still forthcoming.

I would ask Teen's questions tho as I think they are directly relevant to her possible enjoyment of the lessons. 30 people who are listening is a lot better than 15 people where 10 of them are playing the fool and disrupting the lesson.

DS is doing the health and social care Btec alongside 8 GCSEs. I really had to come to terms with my snobbery about it as I was very academic at school. At that age you can't really force them to do what they don't want to imo. Vocational qualifications should have a higher status in this country, like they do in Germany.

At DD's school it was compulsory to take what they termed a 'technical' subject, and the one she chose turned out to be a BTEC. I had a couple of calls from teachers about it possibly not being suitable as the GCSE courses in other options were considered more academically demanding, but DD wasn't to be moved.
She's in her first year at Oxford now.

How disappointing to see the academic snobbery on this thread towards BTecs. My DD is in Y10 - taking 9 GCSEs (Maths, 2xEnglish, 3x Science, Spanish, Geography, PE) and Creative Media BTec. She is very academic - targetted 8/9s in all of her GCSEs and teachers have indicated she will be invited to join Oxbridge pathway if she wishes. I was nervous about Creative Media Btec (same academic snobbery) and was reassured by her teachers that universities would actually look positively on an individual who demonstrated breadth of interest. I think having a qualification which is assessed on coursework will help her demonstrate she can manage a workload over two years (rather than just be a kid who can cram for exams). She's only been doing it for half a term but she loves it and I can see that it is developing her thinking and analytical skills which is totally transferable. I'd encourage you to be open to the idea.

In Germany the vocational schools are separate. Yes they offer a vocational education but bright DC generally would not go to them. They are more like the old technical high schools we had here but got rid of.

Germany values high quality education but you can hardly say T&T falls into that category for 14 year olds.

Tizer Do you know the T&T spec at level 2? I know that at level 3 getting distinctions was really quite hard and required good research and analytical skills.

There are 2 btec in t&t currently. The btec first is less academic but much more enjoyable. The btec tech award which has a much higher exam % and is much more boring. It does often attract the less able but your daughter could likely work at home snd get a distinction. For one chive I wouldn’t worry-but there is an exam element to both, neither are 100% coursework.

If your dd is keen to do T&T please support her rather than let other parents views influence the decision.

Would people have same concerns about a health & social care btec?

At DD's school it was the less academic students who did this, and yes the classes were rather boistrous.