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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

gifted and talented uk

30 replies

muhammadwani27 · 17/10/2021 08:44

Hi, my son has gotten very good results in his cat4 tests, and we are very proud of him.

His results have improved drastically from an overall of only 97 in year 8, when we had just moved from another country, to 107 in year 9, to 113 in year 10. I was just wondering, are these scores enough for him to get into the gifted and talented programme?

OP posts:
Original poster
muhammadwani27 · 17/10/2021 08:45

His full results are:
spatial:108
nonverbal:102
verbal:112
quantitative:130

OP posts:
Annietheacrobat · 17/10/2021 08:54

What do you mean by gifted and talented program? I think the official scheme no longer exists.

HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime · 17/10/2021 09:06

In England (other areas of the UK may be different) there is no national G&T programme. Schools are expected to stretch and challenge more able pupils. Alongside differentiated work higher ability children may be targeted for talks by guest speaker or different educational visits whilst at school. However some schools might still use the terminology gifted and talented which can cause some confusion.

I think the closest that England has to a gifted and talented program is mensa which you would have to pay to do the test.

SmallGreenStripes · 17/10/2021 09:07

The quantitative result is high, it’s likely he will need stretching in maths.
The other results are only a little above average.

SmallGreenStripes · 17/10/2021 09:09

The maths site NRICH maths will be useful for him

LIZS · 17/10/2021 09:16

There is no universal g and t programme, schools may resource an extension activity programme but criteria for selection will vary. Tbh only his quantitive score looks high, the others are well within "average" especially if you have tutored or he is in a private or selective school. Most children are not tested on an annual basis. You need to ask the school what their average scores and benchmark are.

enufforlrite · 17/10/2021 09:16

The Department for Education now use the term 'More Able' rather than Gifted & Talented. HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime is correct that there is no national programme, but some schools do more than others for More Able students so check their websites and ask about it at open evenings. For example, ask if they put students into maths sets - more able students can get very bored in maths lessons if the teaching isn't differentiated for them.

MatildaIThink · 17/10/2021 09:17

@SmallGreenStripes

The quantitative result is high, it’s likely he will need stretching in maths. The other results are only a little above average.
I agree, the other results are in no way exceptional, the 130 quantitative is very high though.
Hawkins001 · 17/10/2021 09:29

What about using more detailed books for home study ?

MyOtherProfile · 17/10/2021 09:40

Most are in the normal range. Maths is v high. Maybe just ask the school how they are supporting his maths?

Beyondthesea123 · 17/10/2021 18:08

High quantitative result means that he is doing well with numbers. I think you should look at schools that concentrated more on STEM subjects. Getting into a top sets of those schools will help him to excel.

MrsHGWells · 18/10/2021 06:22

Your son has a positive bias /skew to quantitative vs the other subjects which are indicate a secure subject knowledge. The improvements in overall CAT 4 indicates he is enjoying school. Your son should be among top set for Maths to support his natural disposition. .

Original poster
muhammadwani27 · 11/11/2021 14:11

yes,
my son is in the highest set in his maths class out of 5 sets in his school
but is only in the 3rd set for maths and science (he is not taking triple science and there is 1 triple class and 5 non triple classes as he tells me)
he is usually not a hard worker and has gotten bad grades before
but his math potential is simply amazing

OP posts:
Original poster
muhammadwani27 · 11/11/2021 14:12

apparently my son is not enjoying school and unfortunately complains that his math class is too difficult, how can i help?
he also hates chemistry

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ChnandlerBong · 11/11/2021 16:11

I'd speak to the school if i were you? They'll advise re the maths ie if he's coping or not and what you can do to help, and also re the sciences. Most maths kids also like physics and they're a great combo for A levels.

LondonMummer · 11/11/2021 18:51

In the kindest possible way his scores are very much in the average range and even maths whilst strong is not exceptional - the scale goes up to 141. CATs aren't the be all and end all so I'd focus on finding something he's passionate about rather than a focus on whether he's "gifted and talented"

LondonMummer · 11/11/2021 18:56

(To put it in context you say his maths potential is "simply amazing" - my son has achieved 141 in his CATs in Years 5 and 6 and isn't getting 100% in tests. More like 80%)

gunnersgold · 11/11/2021 19:24

I don't know what those numbers mean but it sounds like you are super pushy . Why are you so worried about it , it doesn't mean anything in real life . It's just an in house thing at some schools .

Original poster
muhammadwani27 · 13/11/2021 11:36

oops sorry i just realized i made a mistake
i meant to say
my son is in the highest set in his maths class out of 5 sets in his school
but is only in the 3rd set for english and science
also i see someone has called me "pushy"
i can tell you i am not a pushy parent
also i have spoken to his maths teacher and she says hes doing very well
and i read online that having a score 130 or more in a certain area means he can be put in what used to be called "gifted and talented" so i am trying to encourage him in maths.

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gunnersgold · 13/11/2021 16:24

As I said though it doesn't mean anything as such. They won't do different maths to anyone else just because they are on the g and t register ( don't think that is even a thing anymore tbh) . The schools will know he is good at maths and will no doubt offer statistics in year 10 and anything else available to him.

UsernameUnavailable1 · 13/11/2021 17:10

There isn't gifted and talented anymore. Even when I was in school, it was really just that they were gifted and talented but wasn't any different classes or anything.
On the whole, classes teach to the average of the class. This leads to more able or gifted children getting frustrated or children falling further and further behind. They'll sometimes do smaller groups for those behind to help catch them up but for most part, not much extending or support for the more able. Tend to be told to free read or given a book to work from with no instruction. Children will move about tables and classes if consistent but still on the whole true.

I'd suggest a tutor if you want extra support, extending him to whatever his capabilities are, a tutor is probably the way to go. There's some online ones or ask locally. There won't be any success getting him special classes

LIZS · 13/11/2021 19:41

It sounds as of the sets are in line with his scores. There will be others 130+ in a top set. The school may offer Further and/or Add Maths in year 11 or other extension opportunities like the Olympiad.

LondonGirl83 · 14/11/2021 06:37

130 is top 2 percent for context so he is gifted at maths. It sounds like he’s already in the correct sets for those and doing well.

He’s high average / average in all other areas.

I’m not sure what exactly you want though. Do you think he isn’t being challenged enough in maths?

Original poster
muhammadwani27 · 14/11/2021 14:12

well i read threads where apparently children have gotten around 140 in some areas, yet 130 is extremely high and in stanine 9 and is rare
i think with a little help he will be able to be one of the class toppers in his math class
he was 121 last year in quantitative, which is a jump of 9 points
i think his brain will keep growing at a fast pace as ever since year 8, he apparently tells me that he sometimes does brain exercises to improve his cognition
i think challenging his skills will be a great way to help him improve his cognition, and he actually jumped at the idea of being challenge
before year 10, he didn't really care for his academic scores, but now he really wants to become a topper

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LondonMummer · 14/11/2021 17:54

Look, my son genuinely got 141 in 3 of the 4 CAT test categories and 134 in the other. I don't believe he is "gifted and talented". He's a smart boy and has potential but what he does with that is up to him. He's sitting the 11+ and I'm not sure he will get into all or even some of the super selectives he's sitting for. I see lots of mistakes in his work.

Yes, challenge your son, encourage the school to and most of all get him to realise his potential and step up to that but don't assume a CAT test score is meaningful in itself, it's just an indicator of potential

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