Doing additional GCSEs early - anyone here with experience of this?

[stuckinaGSCEloop]

I keep having a recurring argument with DH about DD who is in Y9 and has to choose her GSCE options this year.

Her school has a max limit of 10 GCSEs and she's already looking likely to do one outside of school at the end of Y9 because her school don't offer it as a language and she's already quite fluent.

He thinks she should take another optional subject early because she would probably be able to do it comfortably and because he thinks it'll "stand out on her CV". It's something she could probably do pretty comfortably this year but she doesn't want to do it because it's a subject she really likes and she wants to be part of the GCSE cohort at school.

I'm trying to see it from his perspective but every time we talk about it, it ends in a bit of an argument. He thinks I'm not ambitious enough for DD, that she's overly scared of failure etc And I think he's being pushy and that her reasons for saying no are valid etc. (NB DD doesn't know that DH and I disagree on this, I've tried to be even handed about it when talking about the possibility of doing another one early).

Anyone else have any wisdom to offer? Is it really a big asset having 12 GCSEs? Say she wants to apply to a top uni in years to come, will that extra, early GCSE make her stand out in the way he thinks? Anyone here whose DC have done early GCSEs and how has it worked out for them?

I feel really cross about the whole thing just at the moment but am willing to admit I'm wrong and am genuinely looking for different perspectives rather than people to just tell me I'm right.

Thanks in advance

Maybe show your Dh this information on the number of GCSEs taken. His magic number of 12 (surely not state schools) was only taken by 400 students and I cannot believe he chooses candidates from this criteria. Very poor.

Ds's school do 9 (combined science) or 10 if triple science which is only 30 children out of the 295 as it is an accelerated course in core science lessons, not offered as an option. Figures for that, 166k for 9 GCSEs and the most common and only 79K for 10 GCSEs.

Ds had offers from the top RG universities and "only" has 9 GCSEs but did get four A stars at A level.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-gcse-results-2021/infographics-for-gcses-2021-accesible

I would prefer my child to get higher grades in less subjects.

@stuckinaGSCEloop

For context, DH does a lot of recruiting for work and claims that when he's looking at CVs extra / early GCSEs really stand out. But I feel quite strongly that looking ahead to the workplace shouldn't be the primary focus right now. Anyhow, we can't seem to have a constructive conversation about it without falling out each time!

Is he recruiting very junior staff?

By the time people get past university, surely few employers care much about their GCSEs, especially if they have a good degree.

I've been part of the recuitment for a number of first job post-Uni consultancy-type roles, and it would be irrelevant.

@SallyDoTheDishes that's really useful data, thank you. I suspect he hasn't actually counted the number of GCSEs of the applicants whose CVs he's looking at (and he'd be recruiting largely from the state sector) it would just be a general sense of 'more is better and helps you to differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace' and he would probably argue that being one of a tiny handful of students from the state sector who do that number would stand out. But, yes, I totally agree that higher grades in less subjects (and, crucially, getting pleasure from the subjects you are doing) is far more important than just ploughing through as many as possible as fast as possible.

I think he's touched a bit of a raw nerve because I feel he's implying that I'm unambitious for myself and that I've passed that on to DD. There's an element of truth in that, I was v academic at school and uni but have always been quite lacking in confidence and risk averse and tended to go for jobs I'm overqualified and underpaid for. But he hasn't said that out loud so there's an element of me projecting - it's complicated!!

Schools limit GCSE options fir a reason - so that students can focus on fewer subjects and score better. If they thought more subjects would be advantageous they would 'allow' that (ours doesn't allow more than 10).

I know of a very brilliant student who chose 14 subjects and found it to be tedious and to no benefit anyway.

Adding an extra GCSE to her pile will not make her stand out. By the time she applies for jobs she probably won’t be listing them all anyway as she’ll have higher qualifications.

What about stuff like Duke of Edinburgh award or volunteer work?

@PatriciaHolm no, graduate level staff. But it seems odd to me too. I stopped putting GCSEs on my CV quite early in my career.

@noblegiraffe yes, good idea. She's recently got stuck into some community volunteering actually and is really enjoying it.

Have to head off for a bit but thank you so much everyone for your input - it's helped to clarify things a bit for me

I did 2 GCSEs when I was in year 10. No one has ever remarked on it and it has given me zero advantage in life

I would take it in Y10. There's not that much pressure end of Y10 and it's an extra year to learn the curriculum. I'm not clear if she's just been casually keeping up with Mandarin or studying the curriculum but if she doesn't know the curriculum is spend time on that. Music GCSE is way more than playing an instrument.

My son did gcse RE in Y10 and in thought it was great as it was a practice run on a gcse. There know roughly what it takes to do one (let alone 10!).

I might even see 12 GCSEs as a negative - particularly if some are sat outside school. (And I say that as someone with 11.)

To me it says “kid with ridiculously pushy parent”. I met quite a few of them at Cambridge. (Including one bloke with 8(!) A levels.) It often went very wrong once the parent was not standing over them forcing them to work. I’d much rather have a self-motivator with 8 or 9 GCSEs.

DD2/3's school only lets them do 8 GCSES (9 if they end up doing science trilogy). They do Maths, English (2), Science (2/3), then 3 options, one of which has to be either History, Geography, Spanish or French.

Your DH probably still has candidates who did their GCSEs before the switch to linear ones (the ones on the new spec are only just starting to graduate)

His views on what makes an 'outstanding' candidate are just plain wrong. The new normal is between 8 and 10 in one sitting.

Exceptions are:
a) those taking further additional maths - who might either take maths in year 10 and add/further maths in year 11, or do them all in year 11 (some candidates therefore doing 11)
b) languages not taught in school, where there can be a preference to sit the extra one in year 10 so it's out of the way before tha main sitting. You do need proper exam prep for this - just speaking well is not enough

I often sit as an expert on recruitment panels. I'm not that interested in gcses (or at all), I'm not even that interested in qualifications (they become much of a muchness), I'm more interested in the person and their ideas - original thought etc.

Dd is in her first year of Uni - she's at a top 3. They only offer blanket grades (3As A level)- they want to know who you are and your thinking via your personal statement - it's about what you are reading and thinking about outside of your exam syllabus.

Having more than 10 GCSEs is of no particular benefit though having a proven qualification in a language is useful.

Part of the academic rigour of GCSEs is taking lots at the same time so universities tend to only look at those taken over a 24 months period eg taken a maximum of 2 years early, this would full inside this window.

Do make sure she has time to be a teenagers because there's more to life than studying

Years ago lots of DC got piles of gcse equivalents by taking BTecs. 16 could be achieved. Numbers mean very little. It’s more about academic subjects and grades and no more than 10! No one needs more than 10. Take the Mandarin in y12 if she’s still interested maybe?

Ok – so GCSEs – there is no advantage to taking 12 rather than 9 or 10, not for university nor for future employers. I cannot believe any employer seriously looks even at number and grades of GCSEs, let alone when they were taken. Does your DH really do this?

I have 11 very good O levels (old) but since I also have a degree and a post-graduate qualification, I only mention them to clarify that I have maths and English (needed for some roles). They were actually taken at four different time points for various reasons, but that’s hardly something I would boast about.

In fact today schools are not encouraged to have students sit exams early, as others have noted, as it may lead to poorer grades and also universities like to see that a student has tackled a large load of exams at once.

So on that one I would say your DH is wrong. Re the music specifically – I would imagine it would be beneficial to your DD to take that on in a GCSE group, where there will be support and a chance to perform as part of an ensemble. That was a big thing for my DD when she did music GCSE.

Now, native speakers and exams. I could write a book. I won’t tho.

Let me just say that I have seen a number of students fall foul of their high expectations (especially at A level to be fair, but certainly possible at GCSE). I have conducted speaking exams for native speakers and because they have not been trained (I infer) in exam technique, they haven’t scored as highly as they might have done – for example, no one has told them to develop (in a rather artificial way) their answers. What is the weather like? “It’s sunny today.” OK but to gain the highest mark you really need to go on to say “but yesterday it was raining and that was a shame as I wanted to go for a walk and I couldn’t. I really like the hot weather because I enjoy sunbathing.” This can be an issue in writing and speaking, as can slang or carelessness about (for example) German word order, which is quite common among German speakers.

Could well be that none of this will apply to your DD OP, but I would make very sure she is clear on what she needs to do to do well in the exam by studying spec and mark schemes. What board is she likely to do, do you know?

Sorry for the essay!

I have two DCs with 12x GCSEs each which include a MFL taken early, and then 11x in year 11. The eldest got all 9s.
I think the advantage of doing one early, IF ready, is to have gone through the process once before the bulk of the core subjects, so it sets them up in a good stead to an extent and gives a certain edge, if only because they have bagged a good grade and know they can do it.
I wouldn’t force your daughter to go against what she wants as it may be all counter-productive at the end.

[quote stuckinaGSCEloop]@titchy Well, he reckons 12 is a standout number and why wouldn't she if she can etc But I also find it really hard to believe it'll make a difference. Re GCSE I guess it's just an independent marker rather than 'self-certifying' so to speak.[/quote]
I recruit graduates honestly most them don't even list their A-levels let alone their GCSEs beyond that they have Maths and English. I care about their degree, have they had a job. And do they have skills that are applicable to my role.

Do they have outside interests which will ensure they have good work life balance?
I couldn't tell you how many GCSEs my grad who started last month has.

Back online - thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to post. Somewhat relieved to read that literally no-one on this thread thinks it's an especially good idea to do 2 GCSEs in year 9!

@clary thanks very much, so much useful stuff in your post. And your thoughts on native speakers and exams are really helpful. DD isn't a native speaker and is being taught the GCSE syllabus (saying that, teacher is a native speaker but I've no idea how experienced they are at teaching GCSE so have taken on board what you said re finding out about the sorts of phrases needed for higher grades). I think Cambridge board, but I'd have to double check - vaguely remember seeing DD with a Cambridge past paper.

@MerryMarigold it's an interesting idea re doing it in Y10. One of the other reasons DH is pushing for all this is that he thinks an early one would help to prepare her for GCSEs so they aren't too much of a shock. I think he's thinking that Y9 though would be a comparatively quiet year and therefore a useful time to get one or two done and dusted.

However, this thread has v much settled my mind on the subject so if DH brings it up again I'll stand firm! Thanks again, folks

@Iamsodone Sorry somehow missed your post - helpful to hear from someone whose DC have done this and I'm really glad it worked out for them. And yes, the going through the process once would be part of the rationale. I think I'd be up for her doing one if she were happy to / interested in doing it but not both!

My eldest did his first GCSE in Y6 (and got an A*) in a second language. Absolutely no one has looked at it favourably or even mentioned it so I doubt it has stood out at all!

Is it really a big asset having 12 GCSEs?

No, this is nuts.
I'm very glad DC school does 1 or 2 early each yr, so the kids get familiar with GCSEs, demystify, but there's not great advantage going > 9/10.

Most Unis only consider the 8 best grades. Don't care beyond that.

I might even see 12 GCSEs as a negative - particularly if some are sat outside school. (And I say that as someone with 11.)

To me it says “kid with ridiculously pushy parent”.

Um no, I'm the opposite of pushy, just happen to have an over - achieving, perfectionist child (which in no way comes from me, or her father), it's a bit of a worry sometimes often. And a school which should have known better than to encourage it. I've put my foot down over similar A level excesses.

My DD did a GCSE early - but that was because when she first toured the high school she ended up at in Year 5, they did photography GCSE and she absolutely loved the work on display and probably chose the school for that reason .... And then they dropped it from the options, so by the time she got to Year 8 she could only take fine art (which she didn't want to do) and not photography. So we scurried around and found a photography teacher (teaches it in another school, so was able to submit DD with her pupils at the other school) and she did it after school. And we decided it was better to do it in Years 9 & 10 because she would still be taking a full load in her school (9 or 10, depending on whether she does triple science), and we were worried about the workload.
But we only did it out of school for the same reason you are doing the Mandarin, ie not offered in school, and because DD really wanted to do it (she would have happily dropped any of her GCSEs in school if the school would have let her do it). She did very well in it, despite not taking it in school, but then she was very motivated and it is very different to any other subject she is taking in school - and she felt she learnt a lot (and indeed somebody we know is paying her a small amount in a few weeks to take some photos at a party and she is wondering if it might turn into a career, or at least a side hustle - so being able to say she has a very good grade in GCSE photography at least tells people she knows something about it).
I wouldn't do it just to increase the numbers of GCSEs - I can't see the point. Even applying for medicine, where a lot of the medical schools do look at GCSEs, it is all about the best eight or nine, additional optional ones are ignored (and for Oxford, which is the only place that does seem to look at how many, you pay a bigger penalty if the grades in any are not the top grades, than if you didn't take them at all, so yin fact it is a risk, for Oxford, if you take too many, especially a year early when you are not as mature as the other candidates you are competing against for those limited top grades).