How are the grades for combined science allocated out of the three?

[naem]

I am trying to understand how they calculate the two grades that they give in combined science (eg 7-7) out of the three components (ie Physics, Biology and Chemistry).

Our possible dilemma is this: The High School DD goes to has a requirement that if you want to take Biology for A level, you need to get:

• if taking combined science - 7-7 in combined science with a 7 in the Biology component; or
• if taking triple science, a 7 in Biology and a 7 in one of the others (ie either Chemistry or Physics).

DD would like to stay at her High School, and would like to take Biology for A level. She cannot wait until she can drop Physics and Chemistry. She is currently doing triple (as she is in set 1), but because of the pandemic they have said they will wait until after the December mocks to decide who ought to drop to doing combined science and who should keep going with the triple. In her exams at the end of Year 10 she got one mark off a 7 for Biology, a solid 6 for Chemistry and a 5 for Physics. They expect them to go up a grade on average from their Year 10 exams to the real thing. That would mean the 7 for Biology is eminently achievable, the Chemistry is also, but the Physics is a bit dicey.
My thinking is that, in this particular scenario, she would be better staying with triple - because if she dropped to double then the Physics might bring down the 7-7 score, while in triple so long as she got the 7 in Biology and the 7 in Chemistry she could go on to do Biology A level, but that there is a risk, depending on how the two combined science scores are calculated, that the Physics might drag her down if she did combined science.

As I understand it, the biggest extra content in triple is in Biology, which I believe she is handling fine. It is not clear to me that she would necessarily do any better in the Physics in combined than triple. I have been trying to sit with her and do some Physics in preparation for the mocks in December (because on the other hand, my fear is that it will be the Physics that will push her into combined) and also to try and work out why it is that she is struggling (she is also planning to do Maths A level, so it is not the maths aspect), and the only parts of the course they haven't fully covered yet are waves, magnetism and space (ie the tail end of Paper 2), which seems a reasonable place to be at the moment.

Any science teachers with understanding of how the final GCSEs are calculated and is this a real risk?

I'm not a teacher, but your analysis is correct. If your child is weaker in one science than the others, it will drag their overall combined science score down. However ... if your DC wants to go onto sixth form at her current school, I would hope they might apply a bit of discretion as they will actually know the level she is working at specifically in biology !

It's a slight issue (IMO) with the combined science model. My DS took triple science and was able to mix foundation and higher papers in different sciences. DD is taking combined science but much weaker in one science but doesn't have a similar option. She is having to put a lot of extra work into her Physics so it doesn't deflate her combined score, whereas if she was taking separate sciences, she would probably be happy with a pass.

Your understanding is correct. To award the 2 grades in Combined Science the awarding body average the marks across all the 6 papers. So if your daughter is significantly weaker in one subject (Physics) then it could lower the combined grades.
The schools position is a bit odd though as my understanding is that you no longer know how well you did in each of the 3 science subjects. You did for the old Double Science GCSE but not for the new 9-1 courses.
The other factor that may work in your favour is that schools are probably using 2019 grade boundaries. The marks needed for a grade 7 are likely to be slightly lower in 2022.

Yes as pp have said, your understanding, and concerns, are correct. DD1 did triple because her physics was a bit weaker, though she wanted to take both biology and chemistry at A level. I think she got this right because in the event she got As in those two and a B in physics (year before letters switched to numbers). She has since gone on to get two STEM degrees.

So I agree with your thinking that she'd be better off sticking with the triple – it might cost her a grade in physics, but that really doesn't matter if she's not intending to continue with it anyway.

Agree with a pp. My DC did combined science this year and you don't find out the individual scores for the 3 sciences, you're just awarded 7-7 or whatever. I therefore don't see how the school can say she needs 7-7 and a 7 in the Biology element.

Thanks all. I have just checked the sixth form brochure again (admittedly it is for last year, they haven't issued one for this year yet, but I was assuming it would not change, and even last year was well after the new specifications came in), and it clearly says "Grade 7 & 7 in Double Science (with a 7 in the Biology exam papers)". I know they are doing AQA and AQA only offers the triple and two different kinds of combined science now, so I guess I glossed over the fact that it said Double Science (I have just checked the GCSE options brochure for 2020-2021 and it says that it offers various parthways in which Science can be studied and then lists "GCSE Double Science (Sets 2 to 4 - 2 GCSEs) GCSE Biology, Chemistry, Physics (Set 1) - Triple Science (3 GCSEs)." - so again they appear to be calling it Double Science. I presume that just means they have not updated the brochure to allow for the new names, and the same with the A level brochure).
So I don't know - if you can't find out how she did in the Biology papers I don't know what to make of this requirement, it is presumably an error (which is a shame, because it would help make the case if she does find herself in this scenario).

In any event, I am trying to work on the Physics (and Chemistry) with her in advance of the mocks in December - maybe we can pull those grades up - in the past I think they mostly used the Year 10 exams - which in normal years were held in the February/March of Year 10 - to decide who was doing triple and who double, but this year they (understandably) moved the exams back to June, and then emailed in July saying they wouldn't be using those exams to determine who was to move sets in Science, so presumably the results were either low or not what they were expecting from a lot of candidates.
But I guess I wanted a reality check on whether it was more important to focus on the science for these mocks than any of the other subjects (she is not at risk of being put down to foundation for anything) or whether I was worrying unnecessarily about the longer term consequences of her being put down to double in terms of the one subject she really wants to do (she is obsessed with animals, and is thinking about zoology/veterinary nursing - doesn't think she could get the grades at A level to be a vet, and really not sure she wants to either - and firmly refuses when I try and suggest that maybe chemistry for A level might be a good idea, so current A level plans are Biology, Maths and French)

It is definitely better to do 2 separate sciences rather than combine science. Studying 3 subjects for 2 grades without any dept. I did combine science when I was doing GCSE years ago and when I did A level science I took me awhile to catch up.

I think the terminology isn't clear. Double Science is the same as what you've called Combined Science - the "double" means you get 2 GCSEs. Its called trilogy here even thought its only 2 GCSEs.

My only thought in terms of the school saying she needs a 7.7 in Double/Combined Science, and a 7 in the Biology Paper for last years brochure is because exams were marked internally and the school would have had access to the biology papers?? They've not updated the brochure again yet to describe what happens with formal (external) exams again?

I would possibly talk to the teachers. One thing I would say is that the Combined Sciene is much easier than separate sciences - not just because of the content, but also the extent to which pupils are expected to answer questions (I'm not a teacher but having had one DC do separate sciences and one DC do combined). She is much more likely to get at least a 7.7 in Double / Combined Science if she's struggling than 7s in the separate exams. I imagine that's why the school is looking to move children to Double/Combined Science. However, its then a big jump to individual science A Levels.

@Africa2go

I think the terminology isn't clear. Double Science is the same as what you've called Combined Science - the "double" means you get 2 GCSEs. Its called trilogy here even thought its only 2 GCSEs.

My only thought in terms of the school saying she needs a 7.7 in Double/Combined Science, and a 7 in the Biology Paper for last years brochure is because exams were marked internally and the school would have had access to the biology papers?? They've not updated the brochure again yet to describe what happens with formal (external) exams again?

I would possibly talk to the teachers. One thing I would say is that the Combined Sciene is much easier than separate sciences - not just because of the content, but also the extent to which pupils are expected to answer questions (I'm not a teacher but having had one DC do separate sciences and one DC do combined). She is much more likely to get at least a 7.7 in Double / Combined Science if she's struggling than 7s in the separate exams. I imagine that's why the school is looking to move children to Double/Combined Science. However, its then a big jump to individual science A Levels.

Schools get question by question and paper by paper marks back from the awarding bodies, so they would definetely know the mark they got on the biology part of double award. How they would turn that into a grade they would have to decide, but it is not especially difficult to do.

@Africa2go - I don't think it can have been because the exams were marked internally, because at the time they produced the brochure (around November 2020) everybody thought that exams would go ahead in 2021.
My assumption is that she is not struggling to get the 7 in triple Biology (the school gave 8 as the maximum grade for Year 10, the idea being that they are expecting an increase of around a grade, she was one mark off a 7 so that suggests that in Biology an 8 is a reasonable aim if she continues to work as she is currently. Similarly the grade would suggest a fair chance of a good solid 7 in Chemistry, again assuming she keeps working at it.) But the 5 in Physics accompanied by a comment from the teacher which says that DD doesn't really understand Physics suggests to me that even a 6, ie an increase in a grade, might be unrealistic with her current level of understanding, ie I read this as the teacher trying to flag up that she is struggling. Something is not clicking with the Physics - and maybe we can get it to click and maybe we can't, but if we can't it might drag down her grade across the board.

There is some info here that may be a bit out of date. The spec for combined science is now much closer to triple in terms of difficulty, with the difference being amount of content covered.

So the poster who says it was a big jump for them from combined or double to A level, and the poster who says double is a lot easier, may be talking about exams from a few years ago. There is another thread running in secondary ed where a lot of people (who know more about it than I do tbf) make a similar point. Double to A level is not an issue OP.

I did the three sciences for A-level and taught science for 16 years - personally Biology wasn't my easiest at A-level. Lots of people doing Biology also choose chemistry or maths as one often goes well for the next step.

Although only 2 grades are awarded for double science the marks will be provided by the exam board - maybe the school is referring to these as they can view the marks for each science

@clary - I am not worried about the double to A level, I am worried about the school's particular entrance criteria for doing Biology in their six form (ie if doing triple - a 7 in Biology and a 7 in another science, while if doing double, she needs to get a 7-7). What I am worried about is her Physics dragging her down, and then getting less than 7-7 in combined, whereas if she stayed in triple, she might get 7-8 in Biology, a 7 in Chemistry, and, say, a 5 in Physics without it preventing her doing Biology for A level at this school. I do note that there are other options in schools around here that only require 6 average for the other sciences, but that might mean moving schools to do Biology, which is currently not what she wants.

There is also a requirement, which - is apparently difficult to ascertain from the results that are released that she get a 7 in the Biology section of the exams. However odd that is, I am not so worried about it, as her past performance would suggest that Biology is likely to produce her strongest papers, and that would continue to happen if she was in combined science. It is the effect of the Physics on the overall scores in combined science which is worrying me.

@naem yes sorry, I see your concerns and agree with others, triple may be the way forward. Just wanted to correct what I understand are misapprehensions or slightly outdated info from PPs.

I suspect btw that the school has simply failed to update its info wrt the grade in biology from combined, esp if the info talks about double. Might bec worth a chat with HoD.

DD did combined science first year of the new system so 2018 and she was given a full breakdown of grades with total marks for each exam (6 in total . The final number grade was calculated by adding all three scores together. I’m assuming it will be the same for all exam boards

Science teacher here, the double science is just as rigourous as the triple, there's just a bit of extra content for triple and the papers are a bit longer.

It's also not a grade that is averaged across all the papers, they add up all the scores across all 6 papers and use that total score to work out a grade off a scale.

@Clary the info I posted about Combined Science being easier than separate science and it being a jump to A levels is current. Can only talk about my experience/ local area. DC now in Yr 12 so did GCSEs this summer. Definitely a marked difference in expectations / difficulty for separate sciences as opposed to Combined Science. As for the jump from Combined Science to single science A Level, students opting to do that had to go into school for a week over the summer hols.

Another science teacher here. The standard is the same as @Radagast says, but it's the extra content in the separate sciences that is the difference some people are referring to.

[quote Africa2go]@Clary the info I posted about Combined Science being easier than separate science and it being a jump to A levels is current. Can only talk about my experience/ local area. DC now in Yr 12 so did GCSEs this summer. Definitely a marked difference in expectations / difficulty for separate sciences as opposed to Combined Science. As for the jump from Combined Science to single science A Level, students opting to do that had to go into school for a week over the summer hols.[/quote]
I was going from comments from a number of teachers tbh. Did your DC do combined and find the jump a challenge? Either way they can only have done combined OR triple so tricky to compare. Ds did triple in 2019 so new spec and was ok with A level but that doesn't prove much really.

Anyway all sharing of experience has to be helpful.

Did your DC do combined and find the jump a challenge? Either way they can only have done combined OR triple so tricky to compare.

Not if you have twins

@Africa2go

Did your DC do combined and find the jump a challenge? Either way they can only have done combined OR triple so tricky to compare.

Not if you have twins

Aha! Touche