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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

How to convince ex for DS High School?

23 replies

ImSa250 · 03/10/2021 15:50

I have a shared care of my DS. My DS followed a structured approach and worked very hard in his studies in the recent years. This approach was well supported by me and I arranged extra tuitions to prepare him for the Grammar school tests. I'm hopeful my DS will get a place in the Grammar school, however his mum keeps telling him to go to a school where she went and which is nearby. School has Ofsted rating (Inadequate).

Grammar school is bit away (8miles) from her house, however school buses are available as well.

She is not a morning person, however being in shared care, DS will be going to school only 2 days per week any how from his mother's place.

For me, it's no brainer but what could convince her?

OP posts:

midgedude · 03/10/2021 16:03

What does the child want ?

What are her reasons ? If purely practical I guess you have to volunteer to do more of the running about

randomuseragain · 03/10/2021 16:04

Scholarship or bursary at the grammar school?

SunndyD · 03/10/2021 16:04

At that age it’s kind of up to your DS where does he want to go? Where will he enjoy? Is he bright enough for grammar school?

H0cusP0cus · 03/10/2021 16:10

It's up to him surely

ChildOfFriday · 03/10/2021 16:33

@randomuseragain

Scholarship or bursary at the grammar school?

Grammar schools are state schools for which you gain admission by an entrance exam. No one pays fees to go there, so there are no scholarships or bursaries.

Original poster

ImSa250 · 03/10/2021 16:42

DS confused. No particular reason from mum, easy logistics I believe. Yes, I'm considering to volunteer more in the beginning but don't want that it gets permanent.

OP posts:

CorrBlimeyGG · 03/10/2021 17:25

@ChildOfFriday Some grammar schools are independent.

careerchangeperhaps · 03/10/2021 17:30

Is Ds naturally gifted and likely to thrive in a grammar school environment? You mention needing to use tutoring to prepare him for the exams. Maybe mum feels he'd struggle and would be better suited to a comprehensive?

Gazelda · 03/10/2021 17:33

Is the school bus to the grammar free?

Where are DS's friends likely to go?
Is it a single sex - I know that I avoided putting single sex schools down as an option for DD as she is an only and has very little opportunity to mix with boys.

Have you visited any schools, seen tours etc?

ChildOfFriday · 03/10/2021 17:36

[quote CorrBlimeyGG]@ChildOfFriday Some grammar schools are independent.[/quote]
Some independent selective schools have 'grammar' in their title, yes, and can be seen as grammar schools, but I think what most people refer to as grammar schools are the state grammars. I just wanted to clarify that you don't pay fees for these and so there are no scholarships/bursaries that the OP would need to worry about.

CorrBlimeyGG · 03/10/2021 18:13

@ChildOfFriday The three grammars in my region are all independent. Understanding of the term will vary between generation and location. Best not to make generalisations on things you're not entirely clear on.

ChildOfFriday · 03/10/2021 18:21

@CorrBlimeyGG There's no need to be patronising and nasty. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about what counts as a grammar school- that won't help the OP. All I was trying to do was say that state grammar schools don't charge fees so the OP doesn't need to worry about applying for scholarships or bursaries. There is sometimes a myth that state grammar schools charge for admission just because you have to pass an exam- they don't.

OP- if the school you are thinking of applying to is a state grammar school and you apply through your LEA, you don't need to worry about scholarships, bursaries or fees. If it is a private selective school that some may refer to as a grammar school, then things may be different.

campion · 03/10/2021 18:22

I'd say most people understand that sitting an exam for a grammar school means the selective state variety.

Some comprehensives bizarrely still have grammar in their title but they're not grammar schools, nor are the independents.

m00rfarm · 03/10/2021 18:23

Which region has three independent grammar schools?

Original poster

ImSa250 · 03/10/2021 18:45

Grammar school in question is a state school with entrance exam and no fee. Thanks all.

OP posts:

HotPenguin · 03/10/2021 18:48

Your DS doesn't need to be taken to school by his mum if there's a school bus, can't he walk to the bus stop himself? Or is the issue that she doesn't want to get him up early in the morning?

BendingSpoons · 03/10/2021 18:57

Are you on civil terms? If so, ask her why she prefers this school and really listen. I appreciate you feel an inadequate school doesn't compare to the grammar, but there are bonuses too to a local school. How long will the grammar commute take and what will the bus cost? If you understand her thoughts, maybe you can then discuss the pros and cons.

Of course she may not be willing to engage in dialogue about it which is trickier.

careerchangeperhaps · 03/10/2021 23:17

@m00rfarm

Which region has three independent grammar schools?

The North has several I can think of off the top of my head (and I live in the South):

The Grammar School at Leeds
The Manchester Grammar
Huddersfield Grammar School
Bradford Grammar School

ChildOfFriday · 03/10/2021 23:47

@careerchangeperhaps Are those schools any different from any other academically selective private schools though, apart from having 'grammar' in their name? Would you consider all private schools that select on ability to be grammar schools, even schools like Eton? (I'm genuinely interested in different people's opinions and definitions of a grammar school btw- I'm not trying to be goady in any way).

campion · 04/10/2021 01:35

Three out of those four were direct grant grammar schools with a long history even before that partnership, and elected to keep the name when they became fully independent.
Huddersfield grammar school is quite recent and must have thought that 'grammar' improved its appeal but it's not actually a grammar school in any historic sense.

elkiedee · 04/10/2021 04:42

A number of longstanding selective grammar schools were brought into the state system by the 1944 Education Act - but I think the direct grant system meant that all or most school places were fully subsidised on a "direct grant". My mum and her sisters all went to such a school. When government reforms in the 1970s created comprehensive schools a number of such grammar schools (not all of which had "grammar" in the title - eg Leeds Girls High and Oxford High - which is a girls' school) returned to the independent sector. In some cases this was so that they could keep selection. Some local authorities have kept grammars instead of going comprehensive. I know that in London and in other parts of the south east there are selective state grammar schools and ones which were but have become fee paying.

And the North is more than one region - I live in London but come from Leeds. The local single sex grammars weren't far from where I lived - we were quite near the university and recruiting among academic families would probably have helped results/status, though I know the boys' school has moved out to the suburbs, and they offered some scholarships as well as fee paying places.

I'm not really keen on grammar or independent schools personally, but OP, perhaps you and your ex need to find a way to talk and to visit, separately or together, all options. Are there better local schools near to you or to her? Is the school bus easily available or does it have e limited number of places - and are these available part time given the shared care living arrangement? What about transport and uniform costs and school catering? What about friends and extra-curricular activities? What does he want and what are his priorities?

SeasonFinale · 04/10/2021 10:21

I had this issue with my ex and in the end gave in and went with his choice of letting DS go to the local school rather than the bus ride away state grammar. Unfortunately I believe it was a mistake with hindsight. I did so because I didn't want my son to be in a pass to please mum or fail to please dad position. (The silly thing here was we had both been to grammars - it wasn't like your situation where it was local and her old school so presumably she is using the it was good enough for me line too).

Later when it wasn't going well my ex actually said I bet you are thinking he should have gone to (grammar) now. I hadn't been but thought well you obviously are!!

I wouldn't give up on this yet. Maybe suggest he take the exam and see whether he gets an offer. Then if he gets an offer go to any open days. He will be old enough to get himself up and out for the bus by then. I used to do that when I was at secondary schoo.

careerchangeperhaps · 04/10/2021 11:53

[quote ChildOfFriday]@careerchangeperhaps Are those schools any different from any other academically selective private schools though, apart from having 'grammar' in their name? Would you consider all private schools that select on ability to be grammar schools, even schools like Eton? (I'm genuinely interested in different people's opinions and definitions of a grammar school btw- I'm not trying to be goady in any way). [/quote]
I have no idea, I'm not especially familiar with them - I just know that they are independent schools that are called 'grammar schools'.

Generally if I heard people talking about grammar schools, I'd assume they were referring to selective state schools though.

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