Should we aim for a through train or prep school

[WCC1985]

We will be moving to UK and settle in London shortly. We've got 2 boys aged 9 and 5. Have looked at a lot of info online and asked around and so know a bit (but certainly not enough) about schooling in London. Done some online tests and my best guess is that for the elder boy, his innate ability is somewhere around the top 10% of those in the same age. So based on info I got, for 11+, he wouldn't make it to grammar schools or those top independent schools. But at that level, what kind of mid range independent secondary schools can he aim for? We are flexible to as where we live.

Also, we called a number of independent schools that are through to 18 (year 13 ) or 13 (year 8), because if he got into these, we would have more breathing space and be relieved of the 11+ exam pressure, or at least for some years. But then of course, only those "easier to get in” or whose student body is very transient have spaces or have very short waiting lists.

Now, if my son got into these, particularly those through to 18, how much would they go to discourage my son to try the 11+ exam and aim for the higher ranked schools?

And in general, in my situation, would you suggest us to settle in a less academic through train school, or to go into a prep that ends at year 6 and have a tough go at the 11+ exam?

First of all I would caution against aiming to move at 13+. The 13+ entry options are shrinking year on year as more boys’ day schools focus on 11+ entry. Even those who do take at 13+ increasingly offer those places (conditionally or unconditionally) on the basis of tests taken in Y6.

All-through schools which take boys are not all that common in London. I think we’d have to know which you had in mind before offering useful advice. Generally speaking though I thinking it would be limiting for you and your sons to settle for that option rather than considering the full range of 11+ options available to them. You would almost certainly not be assisted by such a school in going for 11+ elsewhere.

Have you considered finding an area that suits the family in terms of commutes etc, putting the boys into a local state primary and then prepping at home for DS1’s 11+ for a sensible range of secondary options (some more and some less competitive)?. At 9 he is presumably in the equivalent of Y5, so has a good year to get familiar with the formats.

E.g, Twickenham prep in SW (go up to 13) and Northbridge and Abercorn in north london (through to 18) have spaces now or likely in coming months, subject to interview test etc. But these, as I understand, are not selective and so my should be able to get through. I am not that worried about inadequate support vs other prep that ends at 11 (not expecting much), but rather would they go on length to discourage you? It seems all independents require a confidential report from current school for the 11+ admission, and in such case, would the through train schools be unhappy or even reluctant to provide it?

We will have loads of issue in settling in and, to add to to it to pressure of preparing the 11+ in such a short time frame in an unfamiliar system, not sure we can cope with. That's why we consider the through train options. Good comprehensive is of course another choice, but seems catchment is so small, not sure we can buy/rent a place in the desired catchment.

My husband will work in central london, so anywhere that can get him to work in about 1 hour (or even 1.5 hours) would be fine. I suppose that cover most of London and that's why we are flexible.

Through schools rarely prepare for external 11+ or even 13+ entrance exams. Many 13+ entry schools pretest in year 6 or 7 and make deferred offers.

I didn’t know Abercorn went beyond 13(?).

North Bridge - well, yes - you can take it all the way through but then you’d have to be satisfied with paying those full-sized fees for a school which has virtually no outside space. To be fair, though, North Bridge would not be expected to stand in the way of an 11+ move because that is really their forte - as a prep school.

Twickenham I know absolutely nothing about. But if a school is selling itself to you on the basis that your DS will stay to 13, do make sure you understand what 13+ destinations are available and when the selection process happens. As I said upthread, if it is secondary day schools you are aiming for (as opposed to boarding), the 13+ is of rapidly diminishing relevance.

I think you need to focus on your sons emotional and welfare needs as much as their academic achievements. Moving to a new country and starting a new school system is tough. So what if they don't get a place at an absolutely elite school? A through-to-18 school will provide stability and a sense of belonging which a child moving to a new country will really benefit from, far more than the upheaval of having to prepare for 11+ exams and then move school again after only 2 years.

@SinoohXaenaHide

I think you need to focus on your sons emotional and welfare needs as much as their academic achievements. Moving to a new country and starting a new school system is tough. So what if they don't get a place at an absolutely elite school? A through-to-18 school will provide stability and a sense of belonging which a child moving to a new country will really benefit from, far more than the upheaval of having to prepare for 11+ exams and then move school again after only 2 years.

Which through-to-18 schools do you have in mind @SinoohXaenaHide? The only option mentioned on the thread is North Bridge House, which is actually a group of schools so that those who don’t move elsewhere after the prep school can transition to one of their senior schools on completely separate sites. And the Hampstead senior school only goes up to 16 (Canonbury up to 18). If avoiding a move is the goal, this doesn’t achieve it.

UCS allows seamless transition from their prep to their nearby senior, but I’d think it very unlikely that a place in the prep is available. The same goes for other preps attached to highly desirable secondary schools.

Abercorn is up to 13, sorry for the mistake.

For those preps that go up to 13, would many boys leave at 11, or would most stay until 13? Would the school be unhappy and unhelpful if we decide to take the 11+ and leave at 11? If most selective independents offer their year 9 place in year 6, wouldn't these prep that go up to 13 also prepare us for the 11+ exam too? or Not because the 11+ and 13+ exams are different, albeit taking place at about the same time in year6？

The preceding para may be a bit clumpsy. In short, do these preps that go up to 11 or 13 caters for destination schools very differently?

I guess for in year admission, even the mildly selective is very difficult, let alone UCS or the like.

OP, I know Twickenham prep well, (note it's in Hampton which is a slow train line to London).
Your ds will need to take the entry exam to the local private schools at 11 but he can stay at Twick prep until he is 13. There are very few places for boys age 13 in the area. If you are interested in the Twickenham area you may do better to speak to Radnor House who are all through from age 10 and are moving to a new site in 2023. Living in Twickenham area you also have the option of entering your ds for the Tiffin boys exam when he is 11 or you can live near 1 of the many excellent state secondary schools. The primary state schools in the area are fab, no need to go private.

@WCC1985 , re catering for different schools. Yes in the prep sector in the Richmond upon Thames area there are 3 preps for boys that will prepare your ds well for top boarding schools age 13 - they are Shrewsbury House, Tower House and Kings House. The rest like Newland House and the preps in Kew will prepare your ds for the local London boys and mixed secondary day schools but only have limited knowledge of Common Entrance. In all cases for all secondary schools the first stage exam is taken in year 6. The teaching in the classroom for years 7 and 8 depends on the prep - it will either be a focus on Common Entrance or a more general overview of the national curriculum.

I can answer for Northbridge. All the girls leave at 11+ and a number of boys and girls transition to NBH Senior at that point (mostly Hampstead). A number of boys stay on for years 7 + 8 but the majority will have secured places via the Common Pre Test in Year 6 for a 13+ move to other schools. In year 6 there are two tracks - one for those children who have already decided to go on to the senior and aren't doing 11+ and another track for those who are sitting exams. The latter is obviously much more intense with a very strong focus on Maths, English, Verbal and Non Verbal Reasoning in the Autumn term with lots of practice tests and homework. The school puts no pressure on families to stay in the Northbridge or Cognita network and as someone mentioned was traditionally very much a Prep School so they do prepare children who want to sit elsewhere (but also have NBH as a backup)

Highgate or UCS spring to mind. No harm in registering for an occasional place.

Preps that go to 13 are traditionally preparing for entry to public boarding schools in year 9.

There are relatively few days schools with large 13+ intakes left for boys.

Agree you should look into Radnor House. Also try Kew Green Prep and Ravenscourt Park Preps that will give you preference to entry to Kew House. Radnor is owned by Dukes Education and will be expanded to a new site. So any school now owned by Dukes is a good bet for all through education, which likely this big group will aim for with their preps: Orchard House in Chiswick, Broomfield House in Kew are likely to feed more directly into Radnor House as years go by.

Harrodian is another good one but I think it is full foe the years you are looking at. Also Ibstock Place near Richmond Park

Other schools further out from friends I know happy there (skewed West/South West London and not the full list, others will be able to add)

St John's Leatherhead
st James Boys
St George's in Cobham is a great CO-Ed
Emmanuel from year 5? I think they do this

There are a few more good co Ed schools in outer London, so do your research

Good luck!

It is always best to keep checking the in year admissions vacancies. In schools with high achieving kids they generally have high achieving parents too who are sometimes moved onwards and upwards in their jobs. I remember a MNer coming from the US being told no chance for certain schools and I said to ignore and ask as in year admission spaces are fluid. Her kids got in to the school she was asking about.

Many thanks for all the valuation. Coming from an ethnic minority background, of the schools mentioned, has anyone got any idea as to ethnic diversity of them? A friend told me diversity is much less in SW london schools than north london. Any truth to that?

I am sure that we wouldn't be unwelcome in most schools as a friend told me many British white parents at least those in and around London actually prefer some diversity , just that I am worried my son will feel uneasy.

Have called Ewell Castle. No space now but got the feel that spaces may come up next few months or at least in year 6, and competition is not that intense. If we settle in Ewell finally, surely they wouldn't expect us to continue with the 11+ and will feel offended, or does it not matter? Surely they won't prepare him for 11+ exam but this (if we got the place before year 7) does give us a peace of mind, among all these drastic changes. Or may be it is silly in this game of chasing whichever school that has a ranking albeit only a bit better?

@WCC1985 , Ewell won't be surprised if you try for other schools. The head is very good, he use to be the deputy head of the girls school Surbiton High, he completely understands the school situation in the area.

@Coronateachingagain

Agree you should look into Radnor House. Also try Kew Green Prep and Ravenscourt Park Preps that will give you preference to entry to Kew House. Radnor is owned by Dukes Education and will be expanded to a new site. So any school now owned by Dukes is a good bet for all through education, which likely this big group will aim for with their preps: Orchard House in Chiswick, Broomfield House in Kew are likely to feed more directly into Radnor House as years go by.

Harrodian is another good one but I think it is full foe the years you are looking at. Also Ibstock Place near Richmond Park

Other schools further out from friends I know happy there (skewed West/South West London and not the full list, others will be able to add)

St John's Leatherhead
st James Boys
St George's in Cobham is a great CO-Ed
Emmanuel from year 5? I think they do this

There are a few more good co Ed schools in outer London, so do your research

Good luck!

Would you recommend a Dukes school as a safe bet? Lots of negative things have been shared here recently - not sure what to make of it all

@WCC1985

Many thanks for all the valuation. Coming from an ethnic minority background, of the schools mentioned, has anyone got any idea as to ethnic diversity of them? A friend told me diversity is much less in SW london schools than north london. Any truth to that?

I am sure that we wouldn't be unwelcome in most schools as a friend told me many British white parents at least those in and around London actually prefer some diversity , just that I am worried my son will feel uneasy.

I would say that Northbridge is strong on ethnic and International diversity. There was only one child in my son's class with two English parents (not us). We were keen on this and found some schools were less diverse (or more mono-ethnic rather than truly ethnically diverse).

Just seen this and wanted to say that we have been very happy with our decision to go all-through (having previously been on the “competitive 11+” track).

We accepted an occasional place for our Y6 boy, after seeing how much pressure he was under with the prospect of hugely competitive exams and interviews, and have been so glad of it. He is happy, active, unstressed and learning lots. We don’t feel that being in a more “gently selective” school will prevent him from reaching his own potential, as he is being well taught and enjoying excellent facilities.

The school (St Margaret’s in Bushey, Hertfordshire) is newly co-ed and keen to build boy numbers, so you may well find them open to applications for occasional places. They accommodate the full range of ages from Nursery to Y13. It is happily diverse, with students from a range of ethnic backgrounds, and warmly welcomes children and families who are new to the area or new to the UK. Their small boarding contingent are mostly from overseas and add to the international and multicultural feel. Do feel free to PM me if you would like to know more.

Lots of schools in South and southeast London with all through. Consider Eltham, Dulwich College, Colfes or St Dunstan's. Takes alot if the 11+ stress off if you have the option of staying.

Seconding SE London. Eltham College, Colfe’s and St Dunstan’s have places most years and they go up to 18.