Confusing child - is she academic or not? Which school to go for?

[Frogusha]

We’re looking at senior school as DD1 is in Y5 and I don’t know which schools to consider because our school testing results are absolutely inconsistent and don’t stack up - for every subject they vary from term to term and each year (starting Y1) from below average to over top 2% nationally. I know I can go ask the Head for her opinion but I think she’ll just average it out statistically and will tell me to apply to average performing schools. I’m not sure it’s the right approach as DD1 can do some of the tests amazingly well, like best in class (and some at really Neanderthal level). She passed G5 with merit at 9, plays 3 instruments, get distinctions in exams, plays chess at good level. But then she has her “moments of levity” like not doing half paper on the test as she thought there was nothing else, or mistakes in 4+5 (she can add it up just fine but can absolutely mess up in the exam if she happens to think of a good story, for example). Have other people DC like that and what do you think about what school to go for, how academic?

Let her take the entrance exams and find out If she fits.

Why are you making this out to be such a dilemma!

Obvious answer?

Yes I think you have to apply for quite a range and see what happens.

I’m interested though as I have a similar child but y4. I suspect she has some adhd traits.

Or it could be that she's just a kid, and has off days sometimes. Have you spoken with her teachers to guage a more rounded reflection of how she is generally? What does she like to do and does she feel she is academic or would like to be?

I know many people like this with ADHD but there could be other reasons. (Diagnosis via mumsnet not to be relied on). It sounds like she is intelligent but at times something gets in the way of her performing to her true abilities. If you can get her assessed so she would be supported if that is the case in an academic school that might be the route to go.

@Quarks69 I’d like to narrow it down somewhat from an endless list I have at the moment. E.g. if an academic child in an academic school would not work like that lest not apply to 3-4 academic schools, let’s try maybe 1 and more of a middle of the road range.

@Trisolaris I was considering professional diagnosis, even contacted the provider, but her school’s learning department did a “pre-test” with her (on the advice of the provider) which indicated possible mild problems, like processing speed lower that should be, but nothing else, and also possibly related to the test being done late after school on a Friday,and advised me not to waste money on a proper test as it’s unlikely to be dramatically different. Hoping to hear from others with similar children. Her friends who are already at top schools seem so different - in the present, and she’s very dreamy. But I know it’s a very small selection so not representative

Are you looking in London or somewhere else? The top schools want consistent performers who will gain a top set of results age 16 etc. I would get external advice plus you have time on your side.

@Frogusha You don't have to pay to get your child assessed for ADHD, you can just go to the GP and tell them if you have concerns.

Depends if you do though.

It is often overlooked in girls, and especially girls who may be more ADD without the H. If she's very dreamy and struggles to concentrate it's a possibility and worth looking into, as there is support she could access if she is diagnosed.

As for school applications, it sort of depends on the above, because if she does have learning needs then she needs to go to the school best equipped to support her with that.

In yr5 we were advised against a selective school. Went for it anyway and now a straight A student planning to do medicine. I honestly think yr5 is too early to tell. However I would look for somewhere that really values her music because then she will shine in that even if her academic work is a little more patchy. At the end of the day they all do the same GCSEs.

This is classic. She's incredibly bright and gifted in some areas, but majorly struggling in others. Spiky profile.

Ds1 was the same when he had ASD tests. Majorly spiky profile.

Plus you already know she's got processing issues.

She's going to need help and support in secondary. Please act now. Get your GP to refer her on NHS now.

I then paid privately for an assessment to get done by one if the doctors who did both nhs and private. So when I finally got to nhs appointment, the assessment was valued, by the doctor I saw, Nr star it had been done by his colleague.

Can you get her an Ed Psych evaluation? It would identify any areas she struggles in.

My ASD son had one and it was really interesting - top perecentiles in some areas, rock bottom in others, whereas generally (apparently) in most kids it should be more even.

Armed with that, talk to the school SENCO, see what sort of support they can offer and how the pastoral support is. Whether she's ADHD/ASD/dreamy/totally neurotypical, it sounds like she would benefit from some support, at the very least managing the dreaminess and completing tests. She doesn't need a diagnosis to engage with the SEN team.

Talk to the schools and visit if you can. My DS is y6 so we are full on in trying to find the right school. Actually visiting is really helpful (I looked at all the virtual stuff last year, it wasn't even half as useful) and talking to SENCO and teachers has been great.

This sounds like my DS also has High functioning ASD and slow processing speed. He has gone to an independent boys school and the small classes and better facilities are more suitable for his needs.

It sounds like you need her to concentrate on her childhood and happiness not finding a perfect school.

That posted too soon!
It sounds like at this moment in year 5 you need to let your DC relax and try to find out a bit more about if there are any underlying issues that would sway the type of school that would suit them. Don’t feel pressured to find an academic school by others - there is so much peer pressure felt at this stage amongst parents and it can really stress children out. If you DC is happy and at a school that suits the rest will fall in to place. You sound like a lovely parent so sure you will make a sensible choice.

I have one of these too: academic, spiky and scatty. So here's our experience

In the long run getting some help and a diagnosis is worth it, because they can't busk it in secondary school in the way they do in primary. But, having said that, an academic school helps because they don't get bored, which is part of the problem.

In order, this is what I would do (and roughly the process we went through). Firstly, get an IQ and achievement test. There are all sorts of issues with this, yes, but it means you can decide on what level you need to advocate for her. We thought DD was just good at reading, test said she was in top .3% and working at double her age in some subjects.

Then try her on caffeine. Seriously. Half a sugar free red bull. If that helps with concentration, ADHD is much more likely. It's a useful pointer. And if I am entirely honest we sent her into all of her entrance exams after a strong coffee and it worked wonders

Then if that's the case, think about diagnosis. We got DD diagnosed after she was already in a selective school, and I think this might be the easier way to do it, but that depends on how you feel she will do in the exams and the kinds of school you are applying to - I suspect things are kinder out here in the sticks than they are in London.

Thank you so much all, really helpful advice. Wow - about caffeine. @wiltonism - do you think that’s an ingredient of ADHD medications? One more thing that puts me off from the full on diagnosis and then choosing the school based on its is that some schools would weed out children with any issues. And they won’t tell you they do. We went to see a gentle and nurturing school which I liked and she didn’t like at all. Then we went to see Habs and she fell in love with it - I didn’t like it, found it huge and warehousey (no offence to the school, just my feeling) - but she then wrote in her diary best school ever! So there’s me thinking if I’m leading her on with something she can’t achieve and should we be not looking at schools of this level. IQ test is a great ode, will look into it.

No, caffeine isn't in ADHD medications, but they are stimulants like caffeine and so kind of work the same way.

And yes, if you are in London I think you are right about the diagnosis and the weeding out so wait BUT as long as she can get into the school she wants without support. You might need to do some tutoring to make sure that happens, but it sounds as though she is able.

I could be your daughter - my teachers used to refer to my exam results as 'scattergun' because I was able but didn't always perform. To be honest I would look at your daughter outside of her results - I was very very capable in school but I would never have done well in a rigorous academic setting! I probably could have achieved more than I did results wise but I was far happier being the top of set 2 than I was at being pushed relentlessly in set 1.

I can only echo above posters. My child has v poor processing and working memory skills, but high reasoning scores.
The school have already suggested this may be similar for your daughter. Mine is about to sit 11+ at selective london schools with 25% extra time using a laptop(which transformed his writing). His Ed Psych evaluation was at the beginning of year 5. It immediately changed the way staff were teaching him, as previously there was always the implication he was 'lazy', or 'could do better'. I would push for an Ed Psych evaluation through school, and if not privately.

She sounds similar with my son. He attends reasonably academic boys day school which slightly below top100 league table. The school has smaller class size, lots of extracurricular available with good push for boys. He loves school.

My dd was considered pretty average in primary. Did very well in some things but her school reports were quite mixed. I really pushed her to get a place at a reasonably academic school and she is now really excelling.

I agree that if she might have a spiky profile then get her assessed.