Applying for secondary school

[Abstardust]

I'm now applying for secondary schools for my eldest. I've put down 3 options with the closest school being option one.
My understanding is if we don't get preferred choice then they work down the list until we get one. If you don't have other options then the LA will just allocate a school in the area with space.
A mum at school has said this is wrong and if I only put one option they'll only offer that school (apparently knows people in admissions) and by putting the 3 choices they'll just pick from the list.
I'm now second guessing myself that I've done the right thing, we'd be really unlucky not to get first choice due to criteria but would be ok with the other choices though would struggle if randomly got a school further away.

You are correct. Your friend is talking nonsense.

You're right, the mum at school is wrong.

If you just put one school and don't get it, the LA will just allocate the nearest school with space.

If you put three schools, they'll work down the list, as you say. However, if you don't get any of those three, the LA can allocate the nearest school with space.

If you have the opportunity to put more than three options on the form (e.g. we had five), it's wise to use them all, perhaps to cover the next nearest schools in terms of distance, even if you don't love them. Bear in mind, the "nearest school with space" = "the nearest school with space after we've allocated places there to all the people who put it on their preference list". So it's the least popular schools that are likely to have spaces for people who haven't got any of the schools they put on their forms.

What happens you apply for three schools (or 4/5 in other areas) The schools rank all applicants against criteria. If you qualify for more than one school, you get your highest preference. If you qualify for none, you get the nearest school with a place.

A mum at school has said this is wrong and if I only put one option they'll only offer that school (apparently knows people in admissions) and by putting the 3 choices they'll just pick from the list

She is talking bollocks.

You are correct. Your friend is wrong.

(As an aside, technically, the schools rank all of the people who applied in order, if your name comes up on more than one list, they offer you your highest preference - putting a school last doesnt reduce your chances of getting a place over someone who puts it first, you are both judged on the admissions criteria, not preference order, for each school)

Your friend is wrong. People cannot hold the council to ransome by only putting one school. How on earth would that work with popular schools if every applicant only put that school? She is talking bobbins.

You are right. Other mum is wrong but probably won't listen. I tried to tell a school mum a few years ago and she wouldn't believe me. You can guess what happened...

If she only lists one school and its heavily oversubscribed then she won't get it.

A mum at my kids school only put down one school on her form, and it was a school that had it's own admissions process. You cant apply for this school using the LEA form.

Needless to say....

Thanks everyone that's made feel better. The high school is the closest to the current primary and I actually live about 7 houses down from it, but it was other subscribed last year and catchment area is about 4/5th thing on the criteria to get in if oversubscribed, I wanted to give myself over options.
I do think they'll be a few parents with issues come allocation day as a number seem to have just put this one school but they live a lot further out and this is a high school is feeder school from about 7 primary /juniors (edge of a city with surrounding villages and new estates)

This woman is categorically wrong and is spreading dangerous misinformation. I work in a school and have dealt with admissions so please feel free to quote me when countering this dangerous nonsense with other parents.
You will be allocated the highest school in your preference that is able to allocate you a place according to their admissions criteria. If none of the schools you list are able to do so, then you will be allocated the closest one to you that can - regardless of whether you listed them.
Anyone who has got a school place using this "tactic" has only been successful because they fit the admissions criteria for that school. Despite us repeatedly warning parents not to do this- some still do- and then have been allocated a place where there is space elsewhere. There is usually a space because other parents do not want the school and it is unpopular.
It may be that multiple schools in your list can offer a place- but you won't know this as you will be offered onto the highest of your preferences that could. If it is not your first choice, then you can go on a waiting list for that school in case a place arises later- sometimes they do due to places not being taken up 3 eg a private school place being taken instead. Or at a later date if a child moves for instance.
But please do not listen to this rubbish for one moment - schools warn parents not to do this and anyone who doesn't listen is a fool. Sadly, many have learn the hard way to the detriment of their poor children.

@PeonyTime

You are correct. Your friend is wrong.

(As an aside, technically, the schools rank all of the people who applied in order, if your name comes up on more than one list, they offer you your highest preference - putting a school last doesnt reduce your chances of getting a place over someone who puts it first, you are both judged on the admissions criteria, not preference order, for each school)

This. As well as rumours about only putting one school down meaning you'll get it, you'll probably also hear people saying "X school always fills up with people who put it first". This is not how it works- there is an equal preference system across England as @PeonyTime describes, so you should always put the schools in your genuine order of preference.

Oh and it infuriates me that people spreading misinformation always claim to know someone in the field- they don't- they just lie to give weight to their nonsense. It takes a particular level of arrogance to act like this.

Also to be clear- schools do not know where you listed them in your preferences so this does not make any difference either.

We’re in Wales so things might be different. We operate an equal preference system here, if you don’t get your 1st, your second becomes your first etc. If you apply out of county you also need to put this on your application form in preference order and the Local Authorities liaise re allocations. I’ve worked in school admissions and now work in a secondary as an admissions officer. Its not true that we don’t see the preferences in school ,we do, but it doesn’t make any difference, it purely is allocated on equal preferences based on the schools admissions criteria re sibling assistance etc

Distance, not assistance! Also, I’d always say to put the school you want first, then your second choice and put your banker school (the one that you know you will get into) third. We only allow 3 choices where we are.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

What happens you apply for three schools (or 4/5 in other areas) The schools rank all applicants against criteria. If you qualify for more than one school, you get your highest preference. If you qualify for none, you get the nearest school with a place.

Correct. Very succinct explanation

I have sat in talks by the Head teacher saying 'if you don't put this school first you might not get a place'. Wanted to shout out 'yes you numpty because if you put it second but you qualify for the first school then you will be given your first choice.' Parents come out saying 'oh we must put this first then', er yeah, if it is your first choice of school.

Fill all the choices in the genuine order of preference and try to put in a banker school if you can where you are virtually guaranteed a place.

So annoying that this misinformation is rolled out so often.
As everyone else has said - you are right, they are wrong.
I tried over and over to explain this to someone a few years ago. They ignored me and were offered the nearest under-subscribed school. They then were going to try and decline that offer on the basis that they'd "have to be given" somewhere else. Thankfully they listened that time and didn't do that (and actually are happy with the school despite their initial "over my dead body" reaction)

I am an admissions officer and the mum whose told you to put only 1 school down is talking bollocks. By sheer coincidence someone putting only 1 school down will occasionally get it. But it’s because they qualify for a place anyway. Not because they “tricked the system”. They were basically lucky that it didn’t backfire.

I’ve had a few appeals this year where people had only put one school down and then didn’t get it. So they were given the nearest school with a place (often not a great school if they are undersubscribed too).

My best one has been the mum who rang up to say another mum had told her that “attending our open evening will improve her chances of getting in”! Honestly I laughed out loud at that one

@IvySneezes - I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I’m in such a quandary about applications. I’m in London, where we’re supposed to put down 6 choices.
The problem is that there really aren’t 6 schools round here that I’d be happy for my DD to go to, and all of the half decent ones are oversubscribed. The nearest school is rated Inadeqate and our current Head advises against even putting it on the form.
What would you advise in this kind of situation?

[quote tigerbear]@IvySneezes - I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I’m in such a quandary about applications. I’m in London, where we’re supposed to put down 6 choices.
The problem is that there really aren’t 6 schools round here that I’d be happy for my DD to go to, and all of the half decent ones are oversubscribed. The nearest school is rated Inadeqate and our current Head advises against even putting it on the form.
What would you advise in this kind of situation?[/quote]
Tigerbear I'm not an admissions officer but I know a bit about this, one way and another.

To start with, a school being oversubscribed or not is neither here nor there is you qualify for a place. Lots of schools have more people applying (ie putting them somewhere on their form) than they have places but then if you have six spots on your form that's hardly surprising. If you qualify for a space on distance (the usual criterion) then you get in.

If you have six slots, pick a local school you actually are pretty certain to get in to and put it sixth. That way you know at worst you will be allocated that school. Better your local inadequate than an inadequate a 45-minute journey away, which is what you risk if you only put impossible preferences.

For the other five spaces, put down the schools you most would like, in that order. Ideally you would have a school you like that is near enough to stand a chance of getting into. But it sounds like you don't. So put fave unlikely choice in slot 1 and go from there. Just remember to put "the banker" in sixth.

And do have a look at the schools,; why is the inadequate one so rated? What did it fall down on (some things will be more important to you than other aspects)? What is it doing to improve?

Our your favourite 3 in order of preference but be realistic and study admissions info. Then put the least worst 3. No point putting down desirable schools miles away if you have no chance

@Elephantscantfly

We’re in Wales so things might be different. We operate an equal preference system here, if you don’t get your 1st, your second becomes your first etc. If you apply out of county you also need to put this on your application form in preference order and the Local Authorities liaise re allocations. I’ve worked in school admissions and now work in a secondary as an admissions officer. Its not true that we don’t see the preferences in school ,we do, but it doesn’t make any difference, it purely is allocated on equal preferences based on the schools admissions criteria re sibling assistance etc

Hi, that is not how equal preference system works.

Equal preference system works by treating each of the preferences the same. The only time the order comes in to it is if a child is ranked high enough to be offered more than one school, only the highest preference will be offered and anything named lower automatically discarded.

I am an admissions officer in the council - this is my job. We do not provide schools with the preference order. That may just be a Welsh thing.

@clary

that is absolutely the best advice i have ever seen a non-admissions officer give on a thread like this - thank you

Also admissions officer at a council. We definitely don't tell schools what ranking you gave them. Occasionally this comes as a surprise to head teachers "but we only want the parents who put us first" said the head of a new Free School. Sorry that's not the way it works.
I offer help to parents every year in the authority I live in (work elsewhere) and always get told by someone that I'm talking rubbish. Nope...it's been my job for 8 years and I really do know my stuff.