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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Vertical tutor groups

15 replies

mrswenthworth · 20/09/2021 22:05

Dds just entered yr 7 and we found out just at the very end of yr 6 that they have mixed age tutor groups. This is a semi rural comp where her primary was one of the bigger feeder schools.

Dd1 was put into a group with only 5 other yr 7s, only one of which was from her primary and 3 of them are boys (she is a very girly girl and doesn't have that many boy mates). Of the 2 girls, one is sat in a designated seat the other side of the class and she made friends with the other one in summer school. However that girl has been moved into a different tutor group for reasons unknown.

Dd1 is now sat by a yr 10 who is pretty brusque and no one else who will talk to her in her near vicinity.

She has been pretty upset by this - for context she experienced some low level but constant bullying from one of the boys in her yr 6 class which her teacher told her to 'ignore and stop getting in his way'. As a consequence she didn't tell me how bad this was until the summer holidays so I am very aware of advocating properly for her. However, I've also been telling her it's only 10 minutes, it's early days, she can manage it and she's got lots of friends waiting for her in class to try and build a bit of resilience

I spoke to her head of house today and explained a bit of background and how miserable she is because I didn't want her to feel like I hadn't listened. He was very sympathetic and had already a chat with her (he teaches her). He is going to talk to her tutor, get her moved around a little bit but wants her to stay in the same tutor group for now at least to give it a chance to settle but the door is open to revisit if it doesn't.

I was pleased with this outcome as he took the issue seriously and gave me a plan (and she's not being picked on, she's just a bit isolated) but dh thinks they should have moved her into a group with her friends immediately. He also thinks vertical tutor groups are a recipe for disaster and that of course no one will ever talk to her.

I'd be interested to hear other experiences and whether anyone else has any solutions or suggestions to make her life bearable.

OP posts:

CraftyGin · 20/09/2021 22:12

Depends why they have gone this way.

My last school was vertical tutor groups, but that was because it was a tiny school with uneven year groups.

This may be the case for your school.

However, I am wondering if it is a cost savings exercise. Perhaps by making the tutor groups vertical you can go well beyond the standard 30 students in a tutor group, and so get by with fewer staff.

It could all be for noble reasons, of course - older ones helping the younger.

At my DDs' school, they had form groups Monday to Thursday (6 groups all from the same year group). On Fridays, their form time was in House groups, so that they could build relations across the school.

superram · 20/09/2021 22:14

I did it as a tutor, it was shit, we went back to year groups.

RampantIvy · 20/09/2021 22:17

DD's school had vertical tutor groups, as did mine in the 1970s. It isn't a new thing.

I believe DD's school has gone back to year groups now.

noblegiraffe · 20/09/2021 22:18

We had vertical tutor groups, similar set-up to the above. We were actively told to mix the year groups in seating plans so Y7 next to Y10 etc.

It was shit. We had to bin in it because of covid and not mixing bubbles and no one wants to go back to it.

Asking for a Y7 to be sat next to someone friendlier if not the other Y7 girl is totally reasonable.

Hellocatshome · 20/09/2021 22:20

How long does she spend in her tutor group?

user1471530109 · 20/09/2021 22:20

OP, I worked at a school with vertical tutoring and it was absolutely brilliant. It was the best thing the school did and it worked really well. Please give it time.

I'm sure once your DD settles she will get used to the group. It's very good for her to meet the older kids and see their faces around school and for them to see her. As you say, she is with her friends in her classes. Form time is a tiny part of the day. Trust me, the older kids in her tutor group will look out for her if she needs it. I only have good things to say about it and I miss that I don't do it at the current school.

My DD has also gone into yr7 and had a v tough time at primary so I do understand your worries. I do get it.

It sounds like she is ok for 99% of her time in school. The head of house is on side. It all sounds very positive. It's week 3. Give it time

Original poster

mrswenthworth · 20/09/2021 22:35

Thanks all. @user1471530109 I was happy with my chat with the HoH today and dd seemed ok with the outcome too so very happy to give it time to settle (tbh I was going to leave it a bit but she was in tears yesterday and given the yr 6 experience I wanted her to know I was on her side).

My dm was a secondary teacher and she had vertical tutor groups back in the day so I know it's not new. The HoH was very positive about them and my mum wasn't anti them either but the school just got academy status from this year so I do wonder if cost cutting is behind it....

OP posts:

user1471530109 · 20/09/2021 22:50

Coat cutting? I can't see that (but gladly like it pointed out if I've missed something?). Same number of tutor groups etc so same staffing. Is it new this year then? Seems an odd time to start mixing bubbles during a pandemic (I realise bubbles have gone, but still.....). I honestly think for such a short time they are in their tutor groups and if nothing actually has happened rather than her feel 'not part of the group yet', I'd leave it. I'm assuming she is happy otherwise?
Obviously, if something happens in the group that upsets her and then makes her wobble about her settling into school, especially after a bad experience last year, I would push for a different resolution. But based on what you've said, I'd leave it for now.

Maybe the form tutor can sit her next to a more friendly older student? Sounds like she is not best placed in the group to feel welcome.

RedskyThisNight · 21/09/2021 07:44

DC's school had vertical tutor groups until Covid, when they had to revert to same age form groups.

I always thought it worked pretty well - they only had about 3 or 4 from each year in a tutor group, so the point was that you didn't mix with just your own year, but got to make friends in other year groups as well.

I think I agree with the person you spoke to - for the sake of such a short period every year, she should give things time to settle. Getting to know people takes time.

RedskyThisNight · 21/09/2021 07:45

I'm not sure why you've jumped to cost cutting either - vertical tutor groups doesn't reduce the number of tutor groups/tutors needed (actually at DC's school they had more, smaller vertical groups than they did they moved to form groups).

CMOTDibbler · 21/09/2021 07:50

My ds is in a school with vertical tutor groups. They spend 30 minutes or so in tutor a day, and he's really liked it (in y11 now) and they only still have 30 in the group so no cost saving. For a child with fewer friends I think its great to mix things up and be with different people. In lower years ds spent most of his time in his teaching group - is she happy in that?

Caramellatteplease · 21/09/2021 08:03

DC school had vertical tutor groups. It was awesome. Genuinely the youngsters have a whole heap of older kids ready to help them out/ fight their corner around school. They were removed when the new head decided to reverse the improvement and return the school to failing.

But any awesome concept can fall flat in the execution, which is my concern with the limited number of same year girls. I'd be expecting to see some significant tutor activity which regroups the children so putting your DD probably with an older girl or actually attempts to regroups her year group within the tutor group so it is less segregated across gender lines. Ideally both. Things like year 7s vs year 11s, paired quizzes

I'd be praising your DD for telling you. I'd then be specifically asking your DD about what was being done in tutor group. If you dont see one of the above in a couple of weeks and your DD is still unhappy, I'd be having another chat

maddy68 · 21/09/2021 08:13

Virticak tutor groups generally work well. The older ones seem less intimidating, and they tend to help the younger ones buikds better relationships. It's only for a few minutes a day. The rest of the time she will be with her own year group

SinoohXaenaHide · 21/09/2021 08:16

Surely there's lots of other parts of the school day where she can mix with other y7s and make friends?

Vertical tutor groups was something I really liked about the school my eldest didn't get a place at. I have no idea whether they were scrapped last year due to covid anyway but doing y7 with zero contact from older years was a really poor start to the secondary experience.

Her tutor group is not where she's going to find her new best friends. It's not likely or expected that anyone will happen to be best buddies with one of the handful of people from their yeargroup that is in the same tutor group. It's totally normal that she won'thave much in common with the other random y7s there. It is where she can make contacts with older and (hopefully) wiser allies who will help her through the times ahead. The rest of the time when she isn't in tutor group time is where she will make friends. Does the school have plenty of clubs and societies for particular interests, hobbies and sports? Joining those is a good way to find people on her wavelength.

Original poster

mrswenthworth · 21/09/2021 11:25

Thanks all. She has gone off happy this morning so that's good. Really interested to hear the positive experiences so i can tell dh the knee jerk instinct that this doesn't work is just knee jerk at this stage.

She has a good friendship group has settled in well everywhere else so it's just this. We've really played up the 'it's only 10 mins' angle too.

Honestly if it wasn't for the shitty year 6 experience I would have left it longer but I spent all of the summer building up her confidence so if something as easy as tweaking seating helps her then I'm pleased I did.

OP posts:

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