Have we done the right thing? Dd2 and maths set.

[Nonicknamesforcatapillars]

I’m just after some opinions on whether or not we have done the right thing by dd2.

So, dd2 Y9 is good enough at maths, but by no means a maths genius. She was bored all last year as she seemed to be bubbled for friendships rather than ability. The class worked at quite a slow pace and she complained about this often. I left it last year as with covid it was just good that they were in school, but I did say to her if they didn’t move her up next year I would mention it to school.

Anyway. Last week dd2 texts me saying she’s been put in a foundation maths class. She had asked the teacher about it as her target grade is 6-7 and obviously the highest you can get on the foundation paper is a 5. The teacher told her the only way she could take the higher paper was for her to move up to a higher set. She asked me to call the school about it.

So the head of maths calls me back and reassures me that she’s actually in a middle set and she would most likely be able to take the higher paper. However her test results are high enough for the top set, the only reason she isn’t in it is that her SATs results were a bit on the low side (her primary did not teach to the test at all). But he’d be happy to move her up and see how she got on. The only problem is that there is no space in the top set on her side of the school and she would have to move to the other side, which would mean changing all her classes. I said I’d speak to dd2 and see what she thought and he was going to speak to DD2s previous maths teacher, that she’s had for the last 2 years to make sure he thinks she’ll be able to keep up with the work.

Dd2 decided she definitely wanted to change even if it meant changing all her classes. The head of maths confirmed today also that her old teacher believes she will do well in the top set and they would like to move her. So it’s happening, but I can’t help feeling a bit sad.

She is in the top set for English and science too and her English teacher is just so good. Dd1 had her for 3 years and she was amazing with her through covid and ensured she got the mark she deserved for gcse. I was so pleased when I saw that dd2 had her and now I feel a bit disappointed that she isn’t going to. I’m glad dd2 is happy and that she’ll be challenged more in this class. But I just wish she could have stayed on the same side of school.

So am I doing the right thing in letting her move sets, or should I have just left it? It was very much her choice, it doesn’t worry me what set she is in so long as she can take the higher maths paper at gcse. She also has a very good, but very intense friend on that side of the school and she will be in her class for all the non set lessons, I was secretly pleased that they wouldn’t be together this year. I feel it’s the right thing for her for maths, but are we benefiting maths to the detriment of other things?

Any thoughts welcome.

If she is happy and the teachers are happy I would have to go with it because otherwise if she gets a lower mark she will say you held her back. I think it is harder getting a high mark if you are in a middle set because the whole class won't be moving at the same high rate so you will have less time at the end to revise and make sure you are solidly understanding everything.

I think it definitely better to prioritise her being in the better classes than you trying to avoid a friend you don't like.

@EllieNBeeb

I think it definitely better to prioritise her being in the better classes than you trying to avoid a friend you don't like.

Just to clarify I do like the girl. They’ve known each other since they were babies, but she can be very intense and put a lot of pressure on dd2. Dd2 had quite a major mental health wobble last year mainly due to intense friendships. So I’d rather avoid a repeat of that if at all possible.

If she wants to move, be guided by that.

I envy your school. My dd didn't receive her SATS results (whole year group annulled through no fault of her own) so having been in the top sets through ability during KS3, they've put her in a low set in KS4 as she doesn't show up on Progress 8 data so they have no interest in her actually achieving anything.

The school won't tell her her target grade although she was working at 6+ last spring. She's now doing Foundation level maths in a class where she knows no-one (only child moved away from her friends) and the school won't move her.

It sounds unbelievable writing it down, but this is what's happening.

@christinarossetti19 target grades are rubbish though! Just worry about learning as much as you can in every lesson irrelevant of what you target it. However the rest of what you said sounds pretty rubbish.

Target grades are indeed rubbish.

However, it's not really possible for my dd to learn much if she's in a class covering material that she covered in primary school.

Pretty rubbish is a bit of an understatement. Given that the primary purpose of children going to school is to learn, I can't believe that her school is deliberately preventing her doing this because of their public data.

@christinarossetti19

If she wants to move, be guided by that.

I envy your school. My dd didn't receive her SATS results (whole year group annulled through no fault of her own) so having been in the top sets through ability during KS3, they've put her in a low set in KS4 as she doesn't show up on Progress 8 data so they have no interest in her actually achieving anything.

The school won't tell her her target grade although she was working at 6+ last spring. She's now doing Foundation level maths in a class where she knows no-one (only child moved away from her friends) and the school won't move her.

It sounds unbelievable writing it down, but this is what's happening.

That’s really awful. Your poor dd. Surely if she’s had 3 previous years at the school proving what she can do that’s what they should be going on. It’s really unfair. Will they be testing them in the autumn? If she scores significantly higher than the rest of the class you’d think they would move her. Will she be able to take the higher paper? If not I’d really be considering moving schools.

I do think some of the reason they’re so open to moving dd is that she’s the sort of kid that will look really good on progress 8 data. Very average sats mark, but could potentially do well at gcse. But I do feel lucky we were listened to. It’s a good school.

Yes, it's very sad for my dd that the school are so flagrant that they really don't give a shit about her.

@christinarossetti19 that's awful.

OP I think it speaks volumes for your daughter that she is keen to give it a go. Our experience is there are other good teachers. It's sad and nerve-racking to move on from a great one, but quite often you land on your feet, and it'll all shuffle round for Y10 quite possibly anyway (if they haven't done their options yet.)

Expect social wobbles, maybe even drama, and regret along the way. That's par for the course moving away from her main friendship group. Reassure her this is normal, she is still likeable and still has lovely friends, the new class just don't know her yet etc. She might need lots of your time in the evenings.

TwoLeftElbows', dd had been prepared to give it a go if the school ackowledged the bullying that she experienced in the summer term and would move her to a class where she would be learning something and had some friends.

As the school has made it clear that they're not prepared to do either of those things, then dd can't really give it a go in a school which isn't prepared to offer her a basic experience of educational or pastoral care.

Yes, she had chose her options. No, she likely won't be able to do all of them, (definitely not one of them) at the new school, she'll just have to fit in with what's available.

Sorry, I've hijacked this thread but I am a bit consumed by my dd being treated as dispensable when other children have decent experiences of school.

@christinarossetti19 I'm sorry if my previous post read as a criticism of your daughter. Everything I wrote from "OP" onwards was directed to the OP, and the specific worries she raised in her opening post.

@TwoLeftElbows

Thank you. You’re right I’m sure the other English teacher will be good too. I wa a just so pleased when I saw she had that particular teacher this year. But over all moving is probably the right thing to do.

@christinarossetti19

I hope that moving schools will work out well for your dd. By the sounds of it her current school is treating her terribly and it’s understandable that it’s getting to you like this. This is an important year and your dd could do without the disruption. I hope she settles quickly into her new school and she is able to be challenged and learn again.

TwoLeftElbows sorry for being snippy. I missed the OP in your post, that makes it clear that you weren't 'speaking' to me.

Apologies, and thanks for your kind words.

Sorry if i missed this but what was their reasoning for a top-set student going into a foundation class? If someone ballsed up then they should sort it out even if it means someone else moving out of the correct set to accommodate your dd. All this moving over is unnecessary and is making your dd make choices she shouldn't have to.

They have refused to give any 'reasoning'.

In the same way that they've refused to give me her GCSE targets.

It has been heart-breaking to see dd this term. She did really believe that when the error was pointed out to them, they would do the right thing by her.

A 'oops, we cocked that up but it's now sorted' response would have been more than acceptable.

The data about her is a mess. Their records of the bullying are either a mess or non-existent and they want her me gone.

I'm framed it to her in terms of if someone (the school) is treating you badly, you tell them and try to sort it out. But if they continue to do that, you walk away.

Sorry that's ridiculous that her current set is based off what she got on her SATS, at a different school, 3 YEARS AGO.

I'm not following at all. Can only say that I'm convinced that success at school is about feeling happy with the social life. I'd go with what my DD thought she wanted to do to be happiest in her time at school.

@CoronaPeroni

Sorry if i missed this but what was their reasoning for a top-set student going into a foundation class? If someone ballsed up then they should sort it out even if it means someone else moving out of the correct set to accommodate your dd. All this moving over is unnecessary and is making your dd make choices she shouldn't have to.

I’m not sure if you were aiming this at my OP or at @christinarossetti19 and her dds situation.

If it’s at me it wasn’t really a balls up. The teacher told my dd at the beginning of term she was in a foundation class, which is why I called the school to question it. The head of maths then informed me that she was actually in a middle set, but looking at her test scores she could easily be in the top set, it was only down to her SATs results being lower that she wasn’t. I would never have called the school at all if dds teacher had said she was in a middle set. I would have just gone with it.

As the head of maths offered to move her up and her previous teacher agreed it would be a good move for her I let dd make the call as it meant changing all her classes. It’s not as big a deal as it sounds as the year has only been split like this for a week and a half and she has friends on both sides. My only concerns were an intense friendship with a girl on the other side and no longer having a the amazing English teacher. Though the top set teacher on the other side may well be equally as good, it just that I don’t know her and I was having a bit of a wobble about it. Dd is sure she wants to change and she’ll still be in the same form etc as forms are not divided in this way.

Def think it's the right thing to press for moving. We did this last year with DS who had always been in lower groups for reasons unclear to us, as he is great at maths and easily keeping up in the top set. I did not want him to do foundation paper.

I think if your child has any additional needs at all (true in DS case) or is generally uncomplaining, and has parents, and also have parents who are generally uncomplaining, the tendency is sometimes to maintain the status quo.

Incoherent but you catch my drift!