A-level course full - what to do?

[seymour]

Hi there, my daughter enrolled at sixth form today but one of the A-levels she wants to do is oversubscribed and the course is full. It’s geography and there isn’t another subject she wants to do as this is what she wants to study at uni. We didn’t realise this could happen. She surpassed the entry requirements. They made her put down another subject which she doesn't want to do! I’m assuming they enrolled kids that were already at the school before external applicants. My daughter's school didn’t have a sixth form so she had to apply somewhere new. That now appears to be a disadvantage. Can anyone advise?

DD is having to run backwards and forwards between two different sixth forms, as she couldn't do her choice of A levels at one sixth form because of how the subjects are timetabled

@TeenMinusTests

No help to the OP but this is one of the reasons I think the Hants system is good with its large 6th form colleges. So big that they have multiple classes of most A levels and can timetable pretty much anything.

That sounds great! I'm in London.

@MadameMinimes

I’d definitely try to speak to someone next week. I’m Head of Sixth Form at my school and would be happy to have a conversation with a family about this.

There are certain subjects at my school that would be full if someone wanted to enrol for them today. We apply oversubscription criteria at the end of the day on GCSE results day if courses are full the and that’s done by highest grades first effectively. After that, we give spaces to those who meet the entry criteria on a first-come-first-served basis until it is full. I can’t call back someone who I gave a place to on Thursday who just met the entry criteria and tell them that I’m giving their spot to someone who is enrolling today with higher grades. The person with the highest grades would be top of the waiting list if a space opened up on the first day of term though. Sometimes people just don’t turn up on the first day, or change course, or start with four and then drop down to three. The school should be able to give you an idea of how likely it is that a spot will open up. We aren’t an oversubscribed Sixth Form (in fact it’s a struggle to fill all our places) but there are always a couple of coursed that end up full within the first two days of enrolment.

Thank you, particularly appreciate your take given your role! Really useful, I will contact them to see where she is on the waiting list and then we can look at next steps. Of course I wouldn't want to take a place from someone else but I just feel kids whose schools don't have sixth forms are at a disadvantage and given the later enrolment appointments.

@UserStillatLarge

I suspect your DD needs to have a long hard think about whether it's more important to do her chosen subjects or be with her friends (and unless her friends are doing the same subjects as her, she may find she doesn't see much of them at sixth form anyway).

Geography has a fieldwork element and I actually suspect it would be very hard to do this as an external candidate. Plus the sixth form would want her to take 3 other subjects so that will increase her workload. I know that isn't your ideal situation but I'd personally cross it off your list as an option altogether.

She does indeed and having had a quick think about the logistics, I totally agree re external course.

@TeenMinusTests

No help to the OP but this is one of the reasons I think the Hants system is good with its large 6th form colleges. So big that they have multiple classes of most A levels and can timetable pretty much anything.

Sounds brilliant! We're in London.

@Lowther

My DD had this, phone call to say she had the grades but they were oversubscribed for biology could she take her forth subject instead. After rechecking biology was a must so she sent an email to decline. I didn't think about waiting lists etc. Luckily I had encouraged her to have a plan B (& c &d!). She is happy with her choice but it has been an added stress that she didn't need. Incidentally another school she had applied to her email went into their junk account so they phoned us the next day to apologise and again we had the rush of resending results just as she was being called into the dentist! Applying and accessing 6th form places and subjects can be a minefield. Hope it all works out well for your DD in the coming days.

Sounds very stressful! Glad it all worked out - we did have plan Bs but she's set on PE A-level which is hard to find.

[quote MadameMinimes]@NotQuiteHere I know that the blocks can seem confusing and frustrating but it is just part of running a school sixth form. There really isn’t a way around it.

We have 4 academic blocks on our timetable and most students choose three subjects. We actually have some of our sciences in more than one block, which helps, but back when we only had one class for each science then the starting point for our timetable would be that Chemistry, Biology, Physics and Maths are all in different blocks. If you then put computing in, it has to clash with one of those. It can’t clash with Maths or Physics, so that leaves you with a choice between Chemistry or Biology.

When you’re a small, school Sixth Form it’s just a fact of life that some things will clash. We only have one class of history on our timetable and it causes a clash for someone every year, no matter where we put it. If you’re a big college with a thousand students in a year group you can have every subject in multiple blocks and people can do any combination that they want. Most school Sixth Forms are teetering on the brink of financial viability as it is. If they only have enough students for one class of each subject, then that will mean that not every combination will work. Likewise, if you offer a subject and you have one teacher timetabled in a room with 24 desks and 24 chairs and 35 students sign up, then 11 students are going to be disappointed. We run subjects with some very small classes (2-3 in some cases) but we won’t run a subject for one student for various reasons. That means we’ve had to withdraw one subject this year. Last year that subject had 10 students, so we would not have expected not to be running it this year. The subject that we were worried nobody would take has had 7 sign up so far. We do our best, but we don’t have crystal balls.[/quote]
Of course, and thanks for explaining. It's more about the oversubscribed course than the blocks. It's the enrolment etc that I find galling.

@Phineyj

She could consider Economics (if it's not full as well). There's considerable crossover with human Geography. I've had a couple of students do that in similar circumstances. They both did very well and one to her surprise fell in love with it!

Thank you, we'll take a look.

There is a Dorling Kindersley book in their 'Big Ideas' series called The Economics Book that gives a good flavour of the subject.

@54321nought

How did you not realise this could happen? Of course there are only a certain number of spaces in each subject. All sixth forms are the same, no one can possibly have unlimited spaces in any one class....

Your sixth form options are limited by the timetables of the school you are applying at, the entry requirements and the spaces available - most people will get their first choice of topics but a very sizeable minority won't.

You can ask if they will consider going one over, as it is something she has set her heart on, and there is a good choice someone will drop out in the first few months...

But you are asking a massive favour, so I suggest you forget that "tiger mum" attitude, because that will not work in your favour at all.

Good luck

Thank you. Perhaps I was naive, yes, I didn't realise that because she was from a different school (which doesn't have a sixth form so obviously had to apply elsewhere) she would have an enrolment appointment after all the kids already there. The tiger mum comment was a joke - in fact I think I should have been more tiger mum in the first place, then I might have been more clues up on the implications!

she ideally wants to go geography/PE at uni.

That's an unusual combination. Is she sure it's offered anywhere?

@urbanbuddha

she ideally wants to go geography/PE at uni.

That's an unusual combination. Is she sure it's offered anywhere?

I think she's not 100% sure on which subject to do at uni out of the two but some of the competitive unis like Loughborough etc do Geography with sports science. It's more that if she can do geography and PE A levels, it keeps her options more open for uni.

Look at the two degree courses and the prerequisites for them. PE is unlikely to be a prerequisite for Sports Science as it’s not widely offered. Geography - well I suspect it is more likely to be a prerequisite but a quick look at a few university websites will tell you.
That might help inform her decision. If she is really keen on Geography I wouldn’t take a place and hope someone drops out - it’s a gamble. Where as a different combination of A-Levels that do include Geography are likely to keep Sports Science an option.

@Ionacat

Look at the two degree courses and the prerequisites for them. PE is unlikely to be a prerequisite for Sports Science as it’s not widely offered. Geography - well I suspect it is more likely to be a prerequisite but a quick look at a few university websites will tell you. That might help inform her decision. If she is really keen on Geography I wouldn’t take a place and hope someone drops out - it’s a gamble. Where as a different combination of A-Levels that do include Geography are likely to keep Sports Science an option.

Thank you very much, good point. Lots to ponder (quickly!)

I wouldn't give up at this point for what she wants.

A lot of students will change their minds and also according to grades received.

So there is still a good chance I belive she might be able to do original choice.

Not ideal perhaps but She can do the a level via the open university.

I think she’d benefit from considering what she would like to do after university. Some places offer EPQ so she could make this a geography based or a PE based project if that A-level isn’t on offer.

@beigebrownblue

I wouldn't give up at this point for what she wants.

A lot of students will change their minds and also according to grades received.

So there is still a good chance I belive she might be able to do original choice.

Thank you, will hopefully find out more today.

@beachcitygirl

Not ideal perhaps but She can do the a level via the open university.

Thank you

@Rummikub

I think she’d benefit from considering what she would like to do after university. Some places offer EPQ so she could make this a geography based or a PE based project if that A-level isn’t on offer.

Ah, yes, good point re extended project. Thank you.

I dont think it is a question of naivety more a bit of a shock as to how the sixth form entry actually works. At 5 and 11 you have lots of time, at 16 you are basically running between schools/colleges juggling the timetable, the entry requirements, teachers saying you need to do a random subject to stay at a school or move somewhere else to do something you really want and it is more stressful than it needs to be - it is a clearing type situation but one that you're in no way prepared for.

@beachcitygirl

Not ideal perhaps but She can do the a level via the open university.

The Open University don't offer A Levels!

Whereabouts in London are you OP? The London Academy in .Stratford (more Oxbridge places offered than Eton, plus other Russell Group places) takes students from a wide area and Stratford is easy to get to from most areas. Not sure if they do PE though.

We had a slightly different problem , no local schools offering music A level. We had a disheartening tour of schools with teachers shaking their heads and saying they just haven’t got any internal candidates. For a couple this is the first year they haven’t offered it, but uptake is so low.

We have found a 6th form in the next town which is keeping music a level, so fingers crossed they accept her, but it was made clear to me on the phone that if she did go there she wouldn’t be able to swap courses and many were oversubscribed.

I wonder if this is the effect of so many years of ebacc biting now?
Lots of oversubscribed ebacc subjects, and a dearth of non-ebacc subjects.

@ChristopherTracy

I dont think it is a question of naivety more a bit of a shock as to how the sixth form entry actually works. At 5 and 11 you have lots of time, at 16 you are basically running between schools/colleges juggling the timetable, the entry requirements, teachers saying you need to do a random subject to stay at a school or move somewhere else to do something you really want and it is more stressful than it needs to be - it is a clearing type situation but one that you're in no way prepared for.

Thank you so much, indeed, we had no idea and I really do feel there should be more info out there. Glad it's not just me!