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Secondary education

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Original poster

School trips costing £1,000 (state school)

92 replies

DarthVader · 29/11/2007 20:28

Colleague said her 14 yr old is going on a school trip to USA costing in excess of £1,000.

I was amazed this kind of trip is run at state schools. She says it is normal and loads of kids go on them. I feel shocked at this! Is it really so? My dd is in primary so am I in for a shock?

OP posts:
AMerryScot · 29/11/2007 21:34

The kids can fundraise, PG.

Even in independent schools, children would be expected to do their bit, eg wash umpteen car etc.

ravenAK · 29/11/2007 21:34

It's not the role of the state education system. It's an optional extra which happens because the goodwill is there on the part of the organisers & the demand is there (from maybe 40 students in our school of 900).

Teaching extra lessons, unpaid, after school to stretch gifted students by giving them an extra text to write about on their English Literature GCSE exam isn't part of the state education system either. I still do it!

Honestly, if you don't want your children to be involved, that's absolutely fine & a perfectly reasonable parental choice. But are you really arguing that teachers should be prohibited from offering these trips to those who do see them as valuable & value for money?

Piffle · 29/11/2007 21:35

Let me see
ds1 is at state grammar
he went on a ski trip cost £800
he was offered a trip to China for intensive language training for 3 weeks (£950) in summer hols, good value but holy shit
he was offered history trip to Belgium for £300 - we said no as he is dropping history for gcse

£350 trip to Barcelona for G+T art students (shit out of luck if you cannot afford this ) but family have had a whip round and stumped up for this for him.

Honestly...

pukkapatch · 29/11/2007 21:36

no dv, the schools are offering children options. it is upto the parents to partake of those options or not.
the school will lay on different activities for those children whose parents have chosen not to send them on the trip. and often, they have just as much fun as the ones who went on the trip.
it is a choice. not a penalty

Original poster
DarthVader · 29/11/2007 21:36

no, you have completely missed the point amerryscot. By my logic we would give all childen the opportunity to learn to read, whatever the circumstances or literacy level of their parents.

Your logic says that we will only teach children if their parents can - or choose to - afford it.

OP posts:
AMerryScot · 29/11/2007 21:37

Well one thing we can perhaps teach them is if you want to have opportunities in life, you have to work to achieve them.

Original poster
DarthVader · 29/11/2007 21:39

I have no problems with kids going on trips.
I accept some parents will be able to or choose to send their kids on more trips than others.
I have a problem with the involvement of state schools in the provision of divisive trips. No problem with other organisations offering thesane trips if unconnected with schools.

OP posts:
LittleBella · 29/11/2007 21:39

pukkapatch, i wish you'd stop using the language of choice here.

some of the parents who haven't sent their children on the trip, haven't done so out of choice, but because they didn't have any choice. Not because they couldn't be bothered ot budget, but because they didn't have enough money and time to budget with. Some of them might work out a budget and find it would take them twenty years to get the money together.

I've no doubt that some people will borrow for it as well.

pukkapatch · 29/11/2007 21:40

well exactly piffle. family can get together and help out. rather than spending a tenner or so on plastic tat for christmas birthdays etc, it can go towards this sort of thing.
dont be disheartened dv. if youhonestly cant afford it, say no. it wont scar your chidl not to go, just as it wont scar ds because he isnt getting a wii for christmas, even though he says he will and thinks he is a poor deprived child for not having as much paraphernalia as some of the other children in his class

ravenAK · 29/11/2007 21:40

OK, I'll check tomorrow but I'm sure in principal that, if a trip is being promoted as part of the syllabus, that we aren't allowed to exclude anyone whose parents can't pay.

I'd agree that, as a parent, I'd be totally outraged if it were implied that 'This is part of X's GCSE course, £500 please' - but a skiing trip etc I'd just yea or nay depending on whether I was happy/able to pay for it, without losing too much sleep.

paolosgirl · 29/11/2007 21:40

Yes of course they could - and usually do via PSA activities. But say 30 kids are asked to pay out £1k. How much do you propose they raise? £30k? £15k? And when? Certainly not during school time. Weekends are family time, or sports, and when there are school extensions/leaky roofs/new equipment to be paid for then I'm afraid fundraising for a jolly takes second place.

Not sure your reading analogy makes sense.

Original poster
DarthVader · 29/11/2007 21:41

So people who cannot afford to send their kids on trips should have worked harder?

OP posts:
AMerryScot · 29/11/2007 21:42

And these parents can't afford a nice house, fancy car, fancy clothes.

Life is like that. You don't have to penalise families who have worked hard to achieve what they have.

At one level, most of us do have a choice. We made the choice to make the most of our own education, that provided the opportunities for good earnings in the future.

pukkapatch · 29/11/2007 21:44

littlebella, it is still a choice. unfortunatly it is one made for you, through circumstances.
certainly the school should look at the general income level of their families before offering thosand pound plus trips. but if we cant afford it in any way or form possible, even with borrowing. then tough shit. it means the dc dont get to go.
the only right offered is a right to a broad and balanced education, as now laid down in the national curriculum, till the age of sixteen. all the extra's are just that. extras

Magdelanian · 29/11/2007 21:44

We all choose to spend our money in the way that we choose. Some parents choose to spend it on a school trip.

Original poster
DarthVader · 29/11/2007 21:45

There is no penalty for for "families who have worked hard to achieve what they have" as they can send their kids on any trip they want, organised by anyone they like.

I just say it is fundamentally NOT the role of a state school to organise such trips

OP posts:
Original poster
DarthVader · 29/11/2007 21:47
OP posts:
LittleBella · 29/11/2007 21:47

So nurses and charity workers have squandered their education by not getting highly paid jobs?

Are you Xenia AMeryScot?

paolosgirl · 29/11/2007 21:48

"You don't have to penalise families who have worked hard to achieve what they have"

I BEG your pardon? Are you insinuating that because I haven't got £1k to spend on one child that dh and I do not work hard, and did not make the most of our education?

I am incandescent with rage. Not on, AMerry. For your information I have 2 degrees, as does DH. Education is incredibly important to us, and from that we have both gone on to good jobs, with good incomes. However, we do not have that amount of disposable income.

pukkapatch · 29/11/2007 21:48

If the trip is being marketed as part of a curriculum, and the school has an equal opportunities policy, then the money has to be a voluntary contribution. it cannot legally be enforced as a' pay up, or you cant go' scenario.
at least that was the situation when i organised school trips in 99 and 2000. dont see why it would have changed.

AMerryScot · 29/11/2007 21:50

I'm not Xenia...

I would imagine that nurses and social workers have long ago come to terms with what they can and cannot afford. Heck, I'm a teacher, I am in the same boat. We have all made the same choice when we entered caring professions over others. We have the courage of our convictions.

I can honestly say that my kids don't think they are entitled to every trip. I think that is healthy too.

AMerryScot · 29/11/2007 21:52

As well as being angry, PG, are you jealous of families who have somehow managed to have enough disposable income so that they can divert some of it towards school trips?

WendyWeber · 29/11/2007 21:55

My older kids had £300 from us towards one trip each, and they were fine with that. DS2 had the same for his Italy trip. (The 2 exchange trips are different, because he is actually good at and keen on languages, but he is still contributing.)

Apart from field trips (for eg Geog and Biol) afaik there are no sec school trips which are required; and for those which are there is a fund to help those who really can't afford it, isn't there?

ravenAK · 29/11/2007 21:55

'they can send their kids on any trip they want, organised by anyone they like'

& what if they like to send their children on trips organised by adults they know & trust, in the company of their friends?

Believe me, the Head & the Board of Governors don't sit down & say 'Right - let's get a £1k skiing trip on this year's slate'. If my two colleagues took their bat home tomorrow - decided actually, sod it, they're going to spend their next Easter break watching daytime telly - it'd be curtains for the ski trip.

They are able to organise this sort of trip because they have the relevant child protection clearance, are trusted by parents & are able to get group holidays at what is actually a discounted rate.

Yes, there are private companies offering activity holidays to unaccompanied minors. But to a great many young people - & their parents - going with people they already know from school is a much more attractive proposition.

Magdelanian · 29/11/2007 21:56

Pukka. I think that applies in term time but not outside. For instance how can a trip to Germany for £300 plus "which will help with German Language" not apply to the syllabus.