Holland Park School

[Oilyvoir]

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/aug/04/allegations-of-toxic-working-environment-at-top-london-school-holland-park

Interesting article if you are in the RBKC area.

Schools publish changes to their admissions criteria on their website.

It used to be that they prioritised kids who went to a primary school in RBKC. Then they decided to drop that and go on proximity only.

I could see immediately it was to exclude everyone in North Ken. I objected but they did it anyway. They used the excuse that Aldridge had opened then, but there are still not enough places in the local area.

I think what really annoyed me was that the Borough owned the land on which the school was built and half of which was sold off for £££ and i thought it should have gone to support education in RBKC. Also that Hall etc were basically begging RBKC parents to send our kids there.

Once the new school was built it seemed they just wanted the posh (largely white) middle classes and everyone else in the poor areas could just fuck off.

My daughter told us that there was a naughty boy who bullied and pushed through the queue in the dining hall this week but Mr Hall was quick to act and put him in his place (back of the queue) firmly (not shouting as some have depicted in the media), to the relief of many children. It is reassuring to have a disciplinarian around to set boundaries for behaviour. Although HPS is set in the serene and affluent environment of Holland Park, we were never under the illusion that it would be the same environment inside the school. It is a highly stressful environment for the teachers as not only do they have to produce successful outcomes in all students, including the less academically inclined, they need to handle challenging kids with behaviour issues whilst being critiqued and under intense scrutiny. We all know what we signed up for when we joined the school as it is stated very clearly in the school regulations documents (that parents and student had to sign). I just think that if strict discipline is not palatable to the parents, then it would better to seek education elsewhere.
It might be worth mentioning that the school offers vocational and BTech qualifications for those find mainstream GCSE and A levels challenging. This would never happen in schools who only care about league tables. I applaud the school for being inclusive and cater to all abilities.

The shouting is not made up it happened every day. I witnessed it myself. When my DD joined the school in year 7 they were lined up in the playground and it were treated and screamed at like army recruits in olden days.

It is possible to have strict discipline without screaming at and humiliating pupils.

My daughter was referred to CAHMS for panic attacks. My GP told me she had referred a number of children who cited similar difficulties and blamed the school.

@Taxwolf

I hope so too. I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I think each and every one of our children go through a different experience and it is very personal. It is hard not to judge and generalise as we are all human. From what we are seeing, none of the teachers is what you have described who shouts at children for no reason or takes the pleasure out of it. It is quite the opposite. Again, this is our personal experience. I hope your daughter rises above all and spreads her wings and not let her past hinder her abilities. Wishing you and your family all the best.

@Drminime

Thank you! She has recently graduated and has a job in her chosen field.

I hope the recent publicity and Hall’s imminent retirement has caused a sea change in the way that students are treated and that your daughter continues to have a good experience.

It wasn’t intended to be insulting - The high expectations do create an certain type of environment that might not suit all children though: a lot of homework, regular testing and an encouragement to attend interventions if children aren’t meeting their potential.

In the 6-7 years since your daughter left, it would stand to reason that there have been changes in the school. My children have experienced hearing staff shout, but have not been shouted at themselves. As with all these threads, I think it is important that more than one type of experience is shared, otherwise it becomes a very skewed picture.

You mentioned that you daughter found the teachers at her 6th form “supportive, friendly and caring.” This has been the experience for my children at Holland Park. Their teachers are wonderful.

I find it fascinating that @Whyisitallsostressfulhas only ever posted on one thread… this one.
Interesting.

Why does that fascinate you @heidiwine? Your close observation on one person and singling her out in this thread actually fascinates me even more! I respect everyone who posted earlier and appreciate the openess and sharing of personal experience, including @Taxwolf whose daughter had bad experience with HPS. This is an open and friendly forum, where people share their views and experience for greater good and it is surely good to have a balanced view as there are 2 sides of the same coin. Let's not turn this thread into some kind of trolling and witch-hunting and please could we stay civilised. Your sarcasm is well noted and not helpful.

Delightful as it is that you find me “fascinating”, it’s interesting that rather than accept my experience of the school is positive, you would rather try to imply that I’m... what?! I’m not entirely sure what the inference of your post is?

Not that I should need to explain myself, but the reason you won’t see any of my previous threads is because mumsnet archive older chats... You obviously have a bit of time on your hands, so feel free to try and find me in conversations relating to 11+, secondary school applications and puppy training from 2019.

@Drminime and @Whyisitallsostressful
I am interested to know what you think of your children being exposed to (or on the receiving end) of this:
twitter.com/formerhps/status/1444665900255305734?s=21
Or this:
twitter.com/formerhps/status/1444665900255305734?s=21

@heidiwine If you are actually interested in knowing what I think, (which I believe is just code for - here I am trying to look like I’m in the right, but anyway...) I’ll tell you.

No teacher goes to work hoping to spend their day shouting, or get pushed to the limit as the teacher in the recording you have attached seems to have been.

I think it is irresponsible to put a recording online without any context, and without knowing the circumstances, it is a very one sided judgment you are expecting/hoping people to make. The teacher can be heard saying, “stop laughing; stop answering back.” He’s clearly not shouting without provocation.

As to how I would feel about my children being exposed to or on the receiving end of this - they have never been shouted at in this way. I will say it again, because you seem keen to ignore me: they love school. They are doing well, their teachers are wonderful.

We considered HPS for secondary but decided against it. We have friends who send their kids there, and who has SEN and he has really grown with their support. Ironically their rules and clear expectations make him feel a lot more comfortable.

We went to the open day and it was a flat no from us. It wasn’t the environment we wanted for our kids. It would have been too much of a jump regulation wise. Also, as kids who were in private I really didn’t like the overtones of trying to get us to move across.

Anyway I don’t know any parent looking at moving their child and all seem happy. They certainly have a wonderful extra curricular program.

Hi @Username7521: I am happy for you. At least you know what suits your kids best. It is much better than feeling frustrated trying to change the system to be the way you want . We were at one of the top private primary schools and my daughter didn't have any problem with adjusting to HPS rules as wasn't that different to her. I don't know whether you followed the recent events of Everyone's Invited. My conclusion from that event was whilst some blamed the liberal environment of the private system, a lot has to do with the boundaries and rules of each and every family. Maybe we should all do what Toby Young did and create a school that would suit our kids. Some of my friends are homeschooling their kids and they said that it was the best decision of their life.

[quote Whyisitallsostressful]@heidiwine If you are actually interested in knowing what I think, (which I believe is just code for - here I am trying to look like I’m in the right, but anyway...) I’ll tell you.

No teacher goes to work hoping to spend their day shouting, or get pushed to the limit as the teacher in the recording you have attached seems to have been.

I think it is irresponsible to put a recording online without any context, and without knowing the circumstances, it is a very one sided judgment you are expecting/hoping people to make. The teacher can be heard saying, “stop laughing; stop answering back.” He’s clearly not shouting without provocation.

As to how I would feel about my children being exposed to or on the receiving end of this - they have never been shouted at in this way. I will say it again, because you seem keen to ignore me: they love school. They are doing well, their teachers are wonderful.[/quote]
My husband teaches in a school which has a toxic environment for staff.

Most don’t want to behave like this/treat the students in this way but the expectation/orders come from the top. It’s toxic for kids and teachers.

I removed my son from a top performing school as they point blank refused to put in place very reasonable adjustments for his autism. Academically he was underachieving (due to lack of said adjustments) but he was on track to pass his GCSES with decent grades.

The school we moved him to was poor academically but they cared about him as a person. He ended up failing most of his GCSES just scraping enough to get into college but he was much happier. I’m convinced that had we kept him at the old school he’d be dead by now.

There’s an article in The Times today. ‘Socialist Eton ‘belittled pupils who struggled’’. Along similar lines to the Guardian article recently. It also mentions the shouting!

Quote from a former teacher
‘If the staff wouldn’t shout at the children loudly enough they were told off. It was horrible.’

Hello @Comefromaway, I have a question for your teacher husband: in a similar situation and without any interference from the top or parents, how would he or should a teacher at HPS handle it? I am seriously concerned not only for the children but for the teachers as well as it is definitely not good for their health, physically and mentally to be dealing with situation like that. As I have mentioned earlier, HPS is like any other state school with a real mixed of backgrounds and characters. Anyone who has been to the school around pickup time or the neighbours would know what I'm talking about. Some kids are no angel. Most kids just want to get on with their school life and learn peacefully. Nobody wants shouting for sure. Again, going back to the question : what should teachers at HPS in the face of bad and disruptive behaviour and protect the others who really want to study and do their best? This is a school that has 1,600 plus kids so the tailormade service of a small private school is not possible. If anyone of you could name one state school in the hood where the teachers could do that whilst keeping their cool, please let me know. I can then suggest to the teachers how to do it. Personally, I just think maybe for their own good , the teachers should just follow the rules, give them penalty notices and follow the official protocols of expelling them once the trouble kids have reach their quota. But again, I'm sure this would be controversial as everyone deserves a chance no?

I have it on good authority that teachers at Burlington Danes, manage to keep order without shouting. Incidentally that school is in a much more deprived area.

I would say 99% of schools manage it.

I don’t have any advice. My Dh would never, ever shout but he’s already been through 3 restructures/applying for his own job and a recent investigation into why there was a poor outcome from a certain thing. He’s tried whistleblowing/putting in formal complaints etc and just got warned off. We have evidence of the head lying to students about pastoral matters. He’s now on anti depressants as are many of his colleagues.

@Taxwolf There are just so many variables and I think this is where parent choice comes in and making the call on the environment each child will best flourish.

I’m not sure if this link will paste properly, so apologies if it doesn’t:
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/compare-schools?for=secondary

The data is a couple of years out - I supposed because the Covid situation makes reporting difficult - but performance-wise, there is no comparison between the two schools.

Anecdotally perhaps teachers in Burlington Danes don’t shout, but they also don’t achieve the same academic standards.

@Comefromaway, I am so sorry to hear that. I hope more people become aware of the pressure on teachers with your post. I can't imagine the strain on their families too. People have so much expectations of how teachers should be, to be kind and gentle, inspiring and caring and tend to forget they are humans with emotions too. I wish you and family all the best and that your husband and colleagues get back to good health.