Doing a language GCSE early - pros and cons?

[TulipLightBulbs]

Background - when DS was 6, we moved abroad for work for 2 years (Austria).
DS attended a local school and after initially struggling a lot, managed to get quite good at German.
We moved back to the Uk when DS was 9.

DS has been attending German classes outside school, at his request, since he was 9, he's now 13. He's worked extremely hard at this and is very motivated.

His secondary school unfortunately doesn't teach German, but his German teacher (who is attached to a different school) has suggested he could sit German GCSE there as an external candidate. She thinks DS could realistically aim for a grade 8 or 9 at GCSE, and sit it in year 10 (he'll be year 9 is September).

Are there downsides to sitting it in year 10?
I thought people might just assume DS is a native speaker and not realise all the hard work he's put in.

A friend also told me GCSEs done earlier or later "don't count", so he might not be able to do it for A level at 6th form?

DS will do 9 GCSEs at school in year 11, with at least one other modern language, possibly even two. I thought doing a 10th subject earlier would be good experience, a bit of a practice run, rather than 10 all at once.

Are any teachers able to advise on what the best course of action is? DS has worked massively hard to get to this point, and we don't want to make the wrong decision for him.

So disappointing how few schools offer A level German :( in my medium sized city there was only one sixth form destination (out of seven) that had anyone taking it in this year's yr 13. More will offer it to be fair (at least two others) but no takers or not enough.

I think it is a very good idea, TulipLightBulbs. At the very least it isn't going to hurt him and if he does well it will be another string to his bow.

Most kids do a couple of GCSEs a year early, then they are out of the way and the pupils can concentrate on other subjects.

@TulipLightBulbs with regard to 2022 GCSEs up in their air no final decision has been made as to whether they will be TAG or actual exams at this point. As an external student evidencing to the centres satisfaction maybe harder for TAG.
Again my reference to the way universities look at GCSEs is true for certain Unis and they are doing it to stop what they say as certain schools 'gaming' the system by doing GCSEs early and possible obtaining better grades due to less work load. Plus all 8 sat together gives them a better idea how someone is likely to perform in Uni exams, but I say it is some not all. From my understanding more likely to be the top flight particularly where they are faced with students with a large number of 8s and 9s.
Through my profession I am seeing a large number of students applying for courses where everyone have a string of 8s and 9s and definitely it is felt if not sat in the same exam session they 'don't count'.
As I say long term plans need to be considered.

I'm not british and finding this whole thing a bit confusing. So students have to take all of their subjects crammed in one year because otherwise it's too easy ? So basically the idea is just to make things harder for them... Because...?

The concern that they may have forgotten some of their skill is fair enough but then why the "done in one sitting" rule ? So if a student takes 10 gcse's at age 11 that's okay and it counts, but if they spread them out between ages 11 and 15 suddenly it's not ?

Marty The issue is that if you take 2 a year for 4 years, that is far less intense than 8 in one go. So it doesn't show the young person can cope with the intensity of the A level years.

For a while a number (but minority) of schools tried doing things like 2 in y9, 2 in y10 and then 5/6 in y11. This was 'frowned' upon, especially if early one included maths and Eng lang where they 'settled' for a lower grade than they would have got later etc.

That really isn't the same as taking one early as an extra (as in this case) or for experience (in the way that some schools do RE short course early).

something else to keep in mind with early exams ( not necessarily relevant to this case, but just in general)

It is NOT the case that you can "try an exam early, and retake it later if you don't get the grade you want" lots of people think you can, but you can't.

You need to declare ALL exams taken on most applications, you can't leave off the earlier lower grade - that would be considered fraud.

So if you "try" maths in year 9 and get a 4, then retake in year 11 and get an 8, your maths grade is NOT 8.

Your first maths grade is 4 and your RETAKE maths grade is 8. In some situations the retake grade is all you need, but in other situations, you compare badly to someone who's first attempt in year 11 gained them a 6.

Again, not important for this particular child, but worth keeping in mind for others thinking of taking exams early for whatever reason

DD1 did something similar. We had lived abroad for 5 years and DD had attended the local school for most of primary in the local language.

When we returned to UK DD took the GCSE in the first year of secondary and the A level in year 9. So by the time she took her 'proper' GCSEs she already had an A grade A level in the bag.

Taking the exams early was excellent for learning things like exam technique and building confidence.

As it turned out, when DD took her proper A levels she didn't do as well as hoped (there were reasons). That A grade A level proved to be a godsend as she was able to get on the course she wanted at university.

If DS is enjoying the study and is able to achieve a good grade then I would encourage him to keep going. It isn't all about whether or not an achievement is 'counted.

@54321nought

something else to keep in mind with early exams ( not necessarily relevant to this case, but just in general)

It is NOT the case that you can "try an exam early, and retake it later if you don't get the grade you want" lots of people think you can, but you can't.

You need to declare ALL exams taken on most applications, you can't leave off the earlier lower grade - that would be considered fraud.

So if you "try" maths in year 9 and get a 4, then retake in year 11 and get an 8, your maths grade is NOT 8.

Your first maths grade is 4 and your RETAKE maths grade is 8. In some situations the retake grade is all you need, but in other situations, you compare badly to someone who's first attempt in year 11 gained them a 6.

Again, not important for this particular child, but worth keeping in mind for others thinking of taking exams early for whatever reason

This is interesting, has this always been the case? 10 years ago DD took several GCSEs early and retook a few in Year 11. She came out at the end with all A*s, went on to do one of the subjects at A Level that she hadn’t studied since Year 10 and then went to Oxford to study said subject. Nobody ever commented on the fact that she’d taken it early/retaken some of her other subjects. Good to know that this isn’t the case across the board as I’d probably have massively advised people to do the same as she did - I’ll keep my mouth shut now!

I think it is a fairly recent thing, that universities, apprenticeships, etc have asked for ALL grades to be declared. Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes it does.

As an adult, I have also noticed this on some job applications recently too.

@Marty13

I'm not british and finding this whole thing a bit confusing. So students have to take all of their subjects crammed in one year because otherwise it's too easy ? So basically the idea is just to make things harder for them... Because...?

The concern that they may have forgotten some of their skill is fair enough but then why the "done in one sitting" rule ? So if a student takes 10 gcse's at age 11 that's okay and it counts, but if they spread them out between ages 11 and 15 suddenly it's not ?

Yep is quite bonkers. However the truth is that the vast majority of children will do all their GCSEs in year 11. Doing them early is relatively unusual. Sometimes happens in private schools and home educated kids and in some exceptional circumstances such as the OPs. I think encouraging them to do as many as possible in year 11, as most state school kids will do, puts everyone on a more level playing field. In theory anyway.

DD went to a secondary modern where they did half their GCSEs in Y10 and half in Y11. That was the way the school was structured. Personally I don't think it is a good idea, particularly around the issue of studying A levels in subjects which you haven't studied for the whole of Y11.

However, I can reassure posters that it didn't seem to be an issue for university admissions officers, including at Russell Group ones if that is an important consideration for you.

Our local grammar the children who do early GCSEs in languages do them in year 9 to reduce pressure in the later years. I am guessing he can resit later if he is not happy with the grade he achieves but I would also view it as a good opportunity to practise.

@ittakes2

Our local grammar the children who do early GCSEs in languages do them in year 9 to reduce pressure in the later years. I am guessing he can resit later if he is not happy with the grade he achieves but I would also view it as a good opportunity to practise.

We would disregard any GCSEs taken in year 9. You would have to be supremely confident that you were going to qualify to stay in the same school. If you are applying somewhere else, then you are disadvantaged; also, you can't just replace one grade with another - you would have to declare both

I teach MFL & we enter students early if they want to. I agree he would not count as native speaker. However there is no extra or different exam for native speakers.

I wonder if he could take it end of year 9?

It would definitely look good as an extra skill. Is he taking another language as well?

So few people do A level German now which is a great shame. It would go well with lots of courses if he had the skill - engineering, business, law, science.

@converseandjeans

I teach MFL & we enter students early if they want to. I agree he would not count as native speaker. However there is no extra or different exam for native speakers.

I wonder if he could take it end of year 9?

It would definitely look good as an extra skill. Is he taking another language as well?

So few people do A level German now which is a great shame. It would go well with lots of courses if he had the skill - engineering, business, law, science.

Year 10 is better. Taking it in year 9 disadvantages him for all the reasons I have given

I can't speak for doing a GCSE in Y9, but all the schools around us (grammars, comprehensives, secondary moderns and privates) offered DD a sixth form place based on her Y10 GCSE results and Y11 GCSE predicted grades (subject to her achieving those of course). Not one queried the fact that she had done half in each year, or even mentioned that there was an issue that she hadn't sat 8 in one go.

Obviously from what people are saying, it varies from school to school, so probably the best advice is to check the requirements at any school which you are considering for sixth form, OP.

I'm sure it does vary from school to school and will probably depend on how oversubscribed the school is or isnt for 6th form. Plus, I dont think any school is going to subtract 'marks' for a student having taken a single GCSE early and then taken the rest at the normal time.

When DD took her GCSE & A level MFL early it was only ever seen as a positive.

It wasnt a language her school offered but they were very helpful in arranging for her to sit the exams. The only tricky bit was arranging for someone to do the oral part of the GCSE. We eventually found someone who would do this.

By the time she got to her proper GCSEs DD was well versed in exam technique and exam hall etiquette which was excellent for calming pre-exam nerves.

@thing47

A friend also told me GCSEs done earlier or later "don't count", so he might not be able to do it for A level at 6th form?

This is a myth, albeit a surprisingly common belief. DD did 6 GCSEs in Y10 and 6 in Y11, and then 2 of her A levels were in subjects she had finished in Y10. It made no difference to her university applications.

It depends on what you want to do at university. When DD was considering medicine the medical schools wanted a minimum of 8 GCSEs sat in one sitting and 3 A levels also sat in one sitting.

thing47 As a matter of interest how recently did your DD do her GCSEs? It seemed to be popular a few years back but fell out of favour with Ofsted iirc.

As a matter of interest how recently did your DD do her GCSEs?

I had to think about that . 6/7 years ago. I should repeat here that I don't think it is a good system splitting GCSEs across 2 years, I am merely trying to provide a bit of reassurance to people, and a counter-balance to those who are saying GCSEs in Y10 will be discounted by all schools at sixth form and by universities, as experience has shown me that isn't necessarily the case.

@TulipLightBulbs

If it's unlikely to be an issue to do it early, I think we will probably go for that.

Would universities look unfavourably on DS if they thought he was a native speaker though? In my view he very definitely isn't.

I just looked at our local uni and it doesn't allow native speakers on language courses.
Would they just assume he was, or do you have to declare it?

I can assure you, native language speakers can and do get on language courses at good universities in the UK. I mean, I think it's a pretty big scam, but it happens.

German teacher here of GCSE and A-Level.

Yes to doing it in Yr 10 especially if he's also doing other MFLs in Yr 11. Unis will love it regardless when it's done. School won't be able to count it unless it's in Yr 11 but that's their problem.

If he wants to do A-Level then he'll have to start early so as not to experience the potential drop in skills in the intervening year. Even though there are fewer schools offering A-Level there are some online German A-Level tutors who will be able to assist.

Some schools will also enter him for A-Level as an external/private candidate provided they or you can source someone appropriate to do the oral exam. It's worth asking his current school or ringing round a few local ones to see if they'd be able to help.

He won't be regarded as a native speaker at all, and even native speakers don't necessarily always get the highest grades, in my experience.

@ShiteningMcQueen

He won't be regarded as a native speaker at all, and even native speakers don't necessarily always get the highest grades, in my experience.

Yes that's very true, especially at A level - some IME seem to think they can rock up and do it but there is a lot of content and some of it is not the kind of thing an average (even German speaking) 18yo would be able to talk about of the top of their head.

GCSE is slightly different, but even there, there can be issues around accuracy and inclusion of important elements in writing for example, so exam technique is still important.

@clary Very true; have come across so many poorly prepared native speakers in my time as teacher and examiner who don't use formal enough language, find spelling tricky or whose schools very unreasonably and unfairly think they can just waltz into the exam with no prep.

It's not that the exams are so hard that even native speakers can't do them; it's more that they are often unprepared or overconfident and therefore attention to detail slips.