Large secondary schools

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Hello all, we are after some thoughts about large secondary schools. We were both lucky enough to go to small schools but our local secondary has a 12 form intake and it seems massive to us! I realise a lot of schools are like this or moving this way. We absolutely cannot afford private schools, and I don't think our children would get into grammars even if we could afford to buy a house there. We can both work anywhere in the country. Interested in opinions from teachers / parents / ex pupils who have been at really large schools like this. Do issues or quiet children get a bit lost?

I think people who went to small schools are brought up hearing a lot of ‘aren’t you lucky’. I certainly was certainly told that a lot.
Personally, I think it’s a bit of a lie to cover up the fact that bigger schools can offer so much better choices and facilities.
One of my small secondary schools had second hand music studio equipment, a second hand mini bus etc all passed on by the much bigger secondary down the road when they upgraded.
Another small school I attended for 18 months was shockingly impersonal. The large school my daughter is due to start has already shown more concern and interest in her individual needs and has much better support structures in place.

My eldest's school had an 8 form intake - for the first couple of years they were treated as 2 lots of 4 forms for setting etc. It wasn't until GCSE options they were mixed with pupils from the other 'half' and that was for subjects with smaller take up. I know 12 form entry is larger but they may structure the first few years in a similar way.

Lots of pros - good structures in place, and often better choice of subjects for gcse etc, more choice of friends.
Can be a bit daunting, but I sort of feel it will hopefully stand my kids in good stead for the big wide world.
Well funded, our state 12 form entry academy has great facilities and technology

Down side - toilets are gross ☹️ But that may or may not be to do with the size!

My DDs go to a large secondary school. Very happy there and settled into their niche within the school well. We looked at a small school as our other option but it just didn't offer the breadth of subjects and specialist teaching that their school does. School they attend is a comprehensive but groups maths+science and then English+mfl+humanities by ability, six set levels in two language streams (so 12 class intake) so children are taught with others at a similar attainment level. Other subjects are mixed ability. DD1 is doing a very specialised art related subject A level that she wouldn't have had the opportunity for at GCSE at a smaller school. Pastoral care is good, no worries about that. They initially found the size of the school buildings etc daunting but once they found their way around were fine. They had support from older pupils they knew from our church (faith school) which helped. And though it is a faith school it is also a very mixed school (other faiths, socioeconomic backgrounds, ability etc) which I think is great.
For context I went to a two form entry grammar school. We could have moved back to my hometown, and I think they'd have got a place at the grammar school there, but I honestly feel that they have a better / broader education than I did. No regrets.

DD's school was a 9 form entry.
In the first year they split the year into 3 equal ability thirds, and they only had lessons within that third (so two other classes).
Then in the second year they were split in half, but differently.
Third year was split into bands depending on mini options.
GCSE year was split into bands based on triple science and then ability.

The splitting meant they could get to know other pupils without getting 'lost'.
Later the banding meant they could set appropriately for core subjects.
The larger side meant a bigger range of options could be provided, plus more extra curricular.
I never felt my DD was lost from an academic point of view - the school looked out for everyone whatever ability.

However DD who is a bit sensitive to noise, and is petite with poor motor skills so wobbly on stairs, really didn't like lesson change over at all. She found it very stressful.

DC's school is 16 form entry.
The reality is that your child doesn't necessarily notice the size of the school as they will only concern themselves with their immediate groups. so, for example, in KS3, everything bar maths and PE is taught in the same class (which worked out for one child who made a friendship group that she stuck with up school, and didn't for the other who hated everyone in his class and sought out friends elsewhere). So I guess big=more chance for friends!

there is definitely more money and resources available and a larger pool of teachers to share knowledge and ideas and cover each other where necessary. I also genuinely feel that each child is known individually. DD developed a disability last year, and I've been so impressed by the infrastructure that swept in to make sure she was supported.

I'd pick a big secondary school over a small secondary school every time.

it depends on the child.
DD started off in a 12 form secondary, but didn't cope. She then went to a tiny private school with 18 per year group and she thrived there.

DD didn't like the hustle and bustle of the larger school, and did feel lost and 'unknown'. There was a constant stream of cover teachers and rubbish, generic reports. Maybe it was just a crap school though.

My 'quiet' DD went from a 2 form entry primary to 8 form entry fully comprehensive secondary - so not as big as the one you mention, but quite a change. She has absolutely come out of herself and is thriving, gaining in confidence and throwing herself into all the opportunities. As others have mentioned, the benefits (in our case) are range of facilities, range of subjects and extra curricular activities, huge pool of specialist staff and teachers, the amount of sheer space, very robust processes in place. Kids streamed already in y7 for some subjects so number of classes and teachers means lessons are tailored suitably to ability. Although it is a big school, it does not necessarily feel like it. Communication and pastoral care is excellent. Number of kids means they have more chance of finding like-minded friends. She has a small but lovely group of friends. They hang out together and so I am not sure are really aware of the size of the school. I don't think a child would feel 'lost' in a large school necessarily. It probably comes down to an individual school and the leadership, but all being equal there, I would choose a large school over a small one for all the reasons above (and I went to small schools).

Have to agree with posters above. Don't let the size alone put you off.
Our primary school has 4-12 per year, but secondary school has 12 form entry ( we live rurally). I've had 3 children go through the schools so far. Although a bit apprehensive prior to moving up they have all really enjoyed being in a bigger school. In fact the child who has benefited the most is the quietest one! The facilities are great as well as choice of GCSE options.... So for example he can do further maths after school and a great computer science department. He also struggled to make good friends at primary school but at a secondary he has a found a group of like minded friends who like Pokémon as much as he does!
It probably depends on the school but I think that by year 7 they are ready to move to a different environment

Ds is in a 10 form per year school - but it is divided into 4 houses, and then has vertical forms (so yr 8-13 in the same form) for tutor time, and then they have subject groups which are streamed. I don't feel like he is lost at all, and there are lots of opportunities to do stuff and in normal times lots of clubs

CMOT Slightly off topic, but what do you think of the vertical tutor groups?

@TeenMinusTests DS likes them, and has missed it this year as they have removed them to stop any inter year mixing (each year group have been pretty much confined to an area of the school). When they are younger it gives them some connection to the kids further up and vice versa, and separating tutor groups from teaching gives a different view, and different people to those they would normally stay with

How do they deal with things like talks about choosing options, or helping with personal statements etc? Is it just done elsewhere rather than tutor time?

General talks about choosing options were done in year assembly, then they could discuss with their subject teachers. We're not at personal statement time yet, so I don't know but suspect thats done by the head of sixth form

I went to a large school - not sure how many forms but it was a few.

We were split into 3 schools and so we'd only really have classes with those in our section. The others were there but rarely saw them beyond break and lunch time.

Lots of potential advantages of a big secondary school if well run. A good, large school still has a good sense of community and will in general be comparatively better off than a small school, so may well be able to offer more choices in subject and better facilities.

Ps the larger the school, the larger the number of like minds you will find in it. I never understood the notion that a quiet child needed to be in a small school - that’s no good if it’s a small school full of loud mouths, it just means it’s a smaller pool with a lower chance of there being someone like you within it. What you need is a well run school rather than a school of a specific size. It’s not even as though small state schools generally have smaller class sizes, and no school leaves you floundering in whole-school lessons, as that would be ridiculous.

I have worked in both very big and medium-sized schools. Larger schools do of course have more staff so there's no reason why their teachers would know them any less well than at a smaller school. The biggest school I worked in had a really strong pastoral system based on 4 houses and was absolutely brilliant. I honestly don't think the size of the school really matters, it's things like ethos, pastoral support and behaviour you need to look out for.

My DC were at a Titan primary the size of a small secondary. Kids are definately not lost: the structures are just different. Local high is 10 form entry which is split into sub schools. Massive upside is the extra curricular, facilities and support units

Not sure if this applies everywhere, but the last school I taught at was the biggest in the area. I was employed as a biology teacher and expected to teach biology; and they wouldn't let me anywhere near the A level classes till they knew I was suitable.
Smaller school during training and everyone taught all sciences to GCSE; biology specialist attempting higher tier GCSE physics is not ideal for anyone!

I have family members who are teachers. Cover for subjects they don't teach is more prevelent in small schools

When people say 'split into 3 schools' do you mean more than just being taught with a subset of pupils?
e.g.

• physical buildings
• assemblies
• lunch times

Did the split stay the same even in GCSE years?

(I'm trying to see whether it is just terminology compared with splitting into halves or thirds for teaching purposes, or more than that.)

@TeenMinusTests

When people say 'split into 3 schools' do you mean more than just being taught with a subset of pupils? e.g.

• physical buildings
• assemblies
• lunch times

Did the split stay the same even in GCSE years?

(I'm trying to see whether it is just terminology compared with splitting into halves or thirds for teaching purposes, or more than that.)

I wasn't the person that said this, but DC's school is physically split into 2 in terms of buildings (which are geographically separate with shuttle bus between the two). There is some sharing of less common facilities (e.g. theatre on one site only) but most of the facilities are separate as is most of the teaching staff (although the teaching pattern is common across the whole school so a pupil in one building is taught the same stuff in the same order as a pupil in the other building). Admin and most senior staff are shared across the whole school. Teaching is separate up to GCSE level but shared for some less common KS5 subjects (subject only taught at one site). This year the two have been kept entirely separate to reduce Covid mixing but normally there is some amalgamation of clubs (e.g. big school production is whole school; school orchestra is mixed albeit often rehearsals are often separate until immediately before performances) and they do various days across the year where the two halves of the school mix in year groups or whole school. My DC generally refer to the other half of the school as though it were a different school.

User That really sounds like 2 schools with some shared admin!
I know that happens sometimes when schools 'merge' but keep 2 sites, I'm assuming that's not what the pp meant though (?)

Actually the opposite to schools merging Teen - the school started on one site and expanded. I believe there was a thinking at one point that going for supersize schools was the way forward but not sure it ever caught on. I think the idea is that it gets the advantages of a very large school e.g. financial savings (shared facilities and staff); the ability to share teaching knowledge and resources whilst retaining some of the features of a "small" school in terms of things like more intimate pastoral care etc. Though there is 8 form entry at both sites, so it's still hardly small. We do see students move between sites if they want a "fresh start" for whatever reason and obviously this is different to moving to a new school as all the teaching/rules/processes are the same so easier to slot in.

Within each site the teaching is in 3 strands in KS3 - which basically means all timetabling of subject teaching is within only a third of the year (though this again, has been lost this last year due to Covid) so the DC only mix with a smaller group of people/staff. I suspect this might have been what PPs meant?

But interesting to see how different schools organise things.
I guess the message for OP is that it's highly unlikely that their child will become an anonymous face in a huge seething mass (although teens actually like to be anonymous on the whole!) - the school will have its own structures in place to make sure they know each child as an individual.