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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

To be a bit confused!

46 replies

Eeve · 22/07/2021 13:17

DD had an initial session today with a tutor (considering going for the 11+). Her state primary has said she is working above age expectations in all areas. However, the tutor has said to me today that she thinks she's actually a little behind where she should be for her age in maths, not in terms of 11+ or anything but for her age.

I'm really shocked. We've never been told there was an issue at all. Fortunately the tutor said she's incredibly quick to pick things up so it shouldn't be an issue for her to catch up.

Her school is a pretty good school, I thought! How can this discrepancy have come about?

OP posts:

Mydogisagentleman · 22/07/2021 14:58

I can see how people could think you may be trying to push your child too much.
We lived abroad until our DD was 13. She had an appalling final year in Malaysia which became evident mainly in maths. She was so far behind that once a week she went to a tutor for an hour.
She is now studying maths at university

Bigtoejoe · 22/07/2021 15:15

Why not look at the national curriculum for Y3? As a pp said, knowing all times tables is very clearly an end of Y4 expectation - that's why there is now a government test for it at the end of Y4. A Y3 should know their 2,3,4,5,8 and 10s. They should be able to do 3 digit column +/- but not necessarily with more than one exchange. The tutor should really have explained this. Did they mean they were behind other children of her age preparing for the 11+?

EllaMayGrace · 22/07/2021 15:23

I’ve very recently left primary teaching and I know our school went to moderation with other local primary schools to ensure what we graded children was fair and accurate.

We’d take books and evidence for a selection of ‘low’, ‘working within’, and ‘exceeding’ children and compare and contrast with their children which was incredibly useful and eye-opening. We did this at least twice a year. I’m not saying the tutor is wrong or the school is definitely right but our assessment marks were as accurate as we could possibly be.

Original poster

Eeve · 22/07/2021 15:38

@Bigtoejoe yes, the tutor did explain this! She doesn't know her 4s or 8s (though learned the 4s in 15 mins well enough to answer quick fire questions). She can sometimes do 3 number column +|- but not consistently.

This is what I mean by if that's the basic Y3 standard how can her teacher have said she is exceeding in maths?

Tutor thinks she's exceeding in English, so is in agreement with school there, so it's not all completely off.

OP posts:

Original poster

Eeve · 22/07/2021 15:39

@Bigtoejoe and she was clear that she was behind with tables and arithmetic for her age, irrespective of the 11+

OP posts:

pleasedonttextmyman · 22/07/2021 15:43

@Horehound

At 8 years old after a full day of school come home then more school. Great! It is pressure. And who knows what the op and her DH are saying to her too. It all adds up.

meh, half my kids class has a couple of foreign languages classes after school.

Kids finish at 3pm in England, 30 minutes of teaching later is hardly a big deal

they also have the usual sports clubs and time to do some homework.
Give kids some credit, its' for their own benefit and it doesn't take time away from hobbies and play.

gwenneh · 22/07/2021 15:45

And if the tutor is GOOD, someone the child can connect with, they really don't see it as extra work.

My DS is indifferent about school but loves his tutor.

Original poster

Eeve · 22/07/2021 16:32

@gwenneh my DD doesn't generally like school and I was worried about the session. But she LOVED her and said it was really fun!

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Original poster

Eeve · 22/07/2021 16:33

And yes, I don't see it as being much different from having a weekly music lesson, or the language school my DSCs went to every Friday evening.

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Bigtoejoe · 22/07/2021 16:36

Kids finish at 3pm in England, 30 minutes of teaching later is hardly a big deal

Off topic, but you so often hear about the school day being 9-3 but do many children in England, esp KS2 children, really finish at 3pm?! I've never worked in or interviewed for a school that finishes before 3.30pm.

Rioja81 · 22/07/2021 17:30

Our primary school finishes at 310 for ks2, 245 for eyfs and 250 for ks1.

Local high school finishes at 245 😱

Seafog · 22/07/2021 17:36

Asking as someone from North America, how come tutoring for school subjects is 'too much', but being in skating/dance/swimming/music or what not, is considered fine? It's all learning, isn't it?

Original poster

Eeve · 22/07/2021 17:43

They're in the playground for 15:15 pick up, so learning has probably finished for something close to 15:00!

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Eatenpig · 23/07/2021 01:04

@Eeve

Blimey. It was a one off assessment!

We don't have a choice of schools around where we are. They are very large and busy and won't suit DD at all.

If we do have tutoring it'll be an hour a week. Hardly child abuse 😳

Don't judge your child at Yr3 re high schools. She'll be a different child by Yr6 if her school nurture them. I can't imagine tutoring a Yr4 child. And loads of tutors tell you the child is slightly behind as they want your money. Reassures parents that they need to spend all that money. Big high schools are fine. Tons of options & opportunities that they love. Let her get her own wings

Eatenpig · 23/07/2021 01:06

@Rioja81

Our primary school finishes at 310 for ks2, 245 for eyfs and 250 for ks1.

Local high school finishes at 245 😱

Yeah but they may start 8.30 and have far less breaks & tons extra curricular instead

Eatenpig · 23/07/2021 01:07

At high school they also have 30-60 min homework on top. Independent learning & consolidation. So a 4pm finish really

ineedaholidaynow · 23/07/2021 01:14

If your child needs a lot of tutoring, not just teaching to the test, then grammar school may not be for them

Mumski45 · 23/07/2021 14:58

@Eeve ignore those saying you are putting too much pressure on your child just by having a tutor.

We used a tutor for a few years before 11+ for a number of reasons

slow steady support is better and less stressful than last minute cramming.
all our good local comprehensives are faith schools and my DC are the wrong faith so wouldn't get in. Alternative was a school that's been in special measures and underperforming for years
bright kids work well with supported high expectations provided by one to one which some primaries don't have the time to give
local primaries don't teach the skills needed for 11+ as they are different in some ways to skills needed for SATS
my DS's worked better with someone else than they did with me.

I have got 2 boys into grammar school with a combination of tutors and help from me and are definitely not behind their peers.

Original poster

Eeve · 23/07/2021 17:49

I think "lots of tuition" is a push!

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Original poster

Eeve · 23/07/2021 17:50

@Mumski45 thank you 😊

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TypsTrycks · 23/07/2021 21:17

OP, don't worry, it's probably a difference in point of view comparing with a different peer group.

If you are in London and doing the 7+ for example, they would expect you to know column addition and all timestables by the first term of Y2 (crazy I know). But if you are not doing the 7+, it's absolutely not needed and it's better to learn column addition in Y3 or Y4 once you've got the basics right.

You have plenty of time for the 11+, am sure an hour of tutoring a week will definitely help.

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