Secondary Admissions - what if I do this.....

[Floppythedog]

I was thinking of doing this on the preference form

1. Catchment school
2. No preference
3. No preference

The reason for this is that for years now (maybe around 10?) children in our village haven’t got into the catchment school. And yes, it definitely is our catchment school - I think every single person I know has checked with the LA over the past few years and the catchment area map clearly shows our village.
Instead the village children are split between a school in a town further south (19 miles away) and a school in a town further north (21 miles away) (its even further north than our catchment school (9 miles away) - you have to go past the catchment school to get to the north school!). Depending on whether children are lucky or not and numbers of the same age group further south, the lucky ones go south (on average - probably 1 or 2 a year and they all live further south than us). Based on past admissions data, we would be going north. Parents have to pay for their children to go to these schools (we’re talking thousands in transport costs every year and logistically dreadful to get to) because the LA argue that because the school was named on the form it is parental preference and they have no obligation to pay for transport. This winds everyone up especially when you have to go past children going south to the catchment school, who actually live closer to the north school than the catchment school, until you get to the north school - but that’s another story.

The school further north is inadequate.
I can not afford the transport costs.
I refuse to bankrupt myself for an inadequate school we don’t want.
We have no other acceptable options other than these three schools. The closest schools after these three are 31, 34 and 38 miles away.
We will get a place in inadequate north school because they have a PAN of 150 and have taken, over the last 3 years, 49, 52 and 49 children into Y7.
This is the school the LA will allocate when we don’t get the catchment school.

I was thinking of ordering the preferences as above. In other words, naming only the catchment school, because, in my head anyways, if the LA gives us the north school they are responsible for the transport costs because they sent us there. Is this correct?

Sounds like a dangerous plan, but I fully understand your reasoning. I think you are right that the LA will provide the transport costs if they send you to a certain school but I wouldn’t swear to it.
Someone like @admission and @prh47bridge might be able to tell you exactly where you stand on this.

Are you completely sure you would get the “north school”? What happens if for some miracle it is oversubscribed next year and the LA send you to one of the schools 30+ miles away?
Obviously I don’t know your area but are any of these 30+ miles away schools easy to get to and better than “north school”? You might be surprised and find they have better transport links? If so, would you consider naming one of these? The costs might be worth it for a good school?

How about put your actual preferences down in order. If you get allocated north school or south school and the LEA refuses to provide transport refer them to the LGO as they have a legal obligation to provide / pay for transport. They can say they don't have to but they're wrong. Legally they do.

The LA are responsible for transport costs if the allocated school is more than 3 miles walking distance for secondary, and there is no nearer school you would have got a place at had you applied to it.

It sounds as if the LA may have be wriggling out of their transport obligations in at least some cases - whether the parents applied for the school or not doesn't matter, what matters is whether it is their nearest school that they would have got a place at. If there is a nearer one that they would have got a place at had they applied, then they are not eligible for transport costs, but if the school is the nearest they would have qualified for of all schools, and is still more than 3 miles, they should qualify.

@HairySandwiches. No chance at the further away schools. I wouldn’t subject DC to a journey like that. It’s going to be an hour plus each way.
All of the further away schools fill any empty places from north schools catchment so there’s not much point.

@titchy I don’t know what an LGO is? Can you explain more please?
All I know is that for previous years, when people in the village haven’t got the catchment school and been given either north or south the LA has argued they are responsible for transport costs because it’s down to parental preference and they named the schools so they have to pay. There have been lots of arguments about it and I know a couple who have tried getting the LA to pay following (what I assume) are the official routes, but, no ones had any success. There’s a huge thing going on locally involving the LA at the minute because of it. No idea what the outcome will be.

Local Gov Ombudsman. https://www.lgo.org.uk

@PatriciaHolm that’s fantastic, thank you. Is there somewhere that is written down? Is that something in a document I can find online or ask the LA for?

@titchy thank you

Is it worth trying to contact other parents and lobbying for another class in the catchment school? It sounds as if it is not really adequately serving its population.

www.gov.uk/free-school-transport

• All children between 5 and 16 qualify for free school transport if they go to their nearest suitable school and live at least:

2 miles from the school if they’re under 8
3 miles from the school if they’re 8 or older*

A school is not the nearest suitable school if there are no places for your child.

Assuming you are in England, PatriciaHolm is correct.

If you name the catchment school as your first choice and don't get a place there, the LA must pay transport costs for whichever school you are allocated regardless of whether you named it as a preference. The LA's argument for refusing to pay is wrong and is a blatant breach of the relevant law (in this case the Education Act 1996, Schedule 35B paragraph 6).

Parents affected should complain to the LA. If that fails to rectify the situation, they should complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

It sounds like your LA owes a lot of parents a substantial amount of compensation. I suspect the LA may resist demands for compensation even if the LGO recommends it. In that situation I would take them to judicial review. I normally recommend steering clear of judicial review due to the costs and potential risks, but this would be a nailed-on win if the situation is as described.

Just put the school you want, outside of cities it's common to only list one school. If they allocate you a further away school they are responsible for the bus fares, don't worry about that

@Cattitudes honestly, it’s a nightmare. There’s been a lot of building in our catchment over the last 10 years and they are all closer to the catchment school than we are so they get the distance priority within the catchment children priority.
The school did add an extra class they upped the PAN from 150 to 180 around 5 years ago but, like I said, they keep building houses closer to the school than our village is. It’s annoying because most of the new houses are actually closer to north school than the catchment school. A review of catchment areas has been asked/lobbied for and I think the LA are considering doing it but as usual they are taking their time to make their minds up. The whole village and the village primary school are involved in fighting the issues. This also affects another small village who are involved as well, there’s lots going on to try and sort it but I don’t think it will be sorted before October 2021 when I have to submit the preference form.

@Comefromaway thank you.

@prh47bridge that’s excellent. Thank you. Thank you for stating where it’s written down as well. I shall go and look at that. I think you might have made a lot of people very happy.

@gogohm Our catchment school is actually the one we want but we just aren’t going to get a place.

Don’t do it - it might feel like the only way - but it can back fire!
Obviously brilliant if you get in the catchment school as per the admission policy.
But by not putting anything you will end up with the worse school.

I say this from experience. My friend did this …ended up with the worse school in the area. She probably could have been given a place in one of the other local schools had they put them down (neighbours to them got into one of the others) but she assumed by putting nothing else they had to give her that choice ..when in fact the choice was removed.

@Todaytomorrowyesterday I’m under no illusion that we are going to get the catchment school of thats the only one we put down. I know for a fact we are not going to get it and are going to be offered the worst school in the county so I’ve no worries about being offered a worse school further away, we are already getting the worst school.
I’m questioning where we stand regarding transport costs to other schools because of an ongoing local argument over transport costs.
Although if we do manage by some miracle to get the catchment school I will be over the moon. I will be so happy that there are no words to express it.

@Floppythedog yes she did get the transport paid for her. So I’m not sure if that’s down to local authority? She ended up not using it due to bullying and her child used the public transport so ended up paying anyway :(
It’s madness that people can’t get into the local school they want.

I have 4 children and with all of mine, I have only ever put 1 choice and left the other 2 blank and I've always gotten a place at my 1st choice. Could go either way but I took the risk

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/575323/Home_to_school_travel_and_transport_guidance.pdf

The guidance says “At the point when transport eligibility is considered, the prospect of being able to secure a place in an alternative (usually nearer) school must be a real one. For most cases this will be during the normal school admissions round when places are allocated.”

So if there is absolutely no change of getting a place at the catchment school, the council needs to provide transport. I’m curious about which LA it is!

No chance*

@prh47bridge I’ve read the legislation you mentioned, as I understand it:

If I put (genuine order of preference)

1. Catchment school (9 miles away)
2. South school (19 miles away)
3. North school (21 miles away)

If we are offered either south or north the LA is responsible for transport costs. Is that correct?

I wouldn’t do this, because it’s not the genuine order of preference, but just to clarify my understanding, if I put

1. Catchment
2. North (21 miles)
3. South (19 miles)

And we were offered South the LA is responsible for transport costs because it’s not catchment but the closest school.

But what about if we got offered north? South is closer so does that mean the LA has no responsibility and the parents pay? Or does that mean, because that’s not the catchment school the LA pays? Or does that mean, because it’s not the catchment, but for sake of argument south School has places it could have offered, then parents are responsible for transport costs to north?

I really hope that made sense

So if you apply for a school you’d actually get a place at, the council can’t refuse transport on the basis you would have got a place at the nearest school, if all the places at the nearest school were taken by children with a higher priority/living nearer to the school. But if there is ANOTHER school nearer that your DC could have had a place at, the council can refuse transport. So I guess choose carefully.

I would be tempted to put:

1. Catchment school
2. South school
3. No preference

It would be a shame to miss out on even a small possibility of south school if north school is worse.

And it’s not a complaint process but an appeal. You can appeal a decision not to award free school transport (two stages) and if unsuccessful you can go to the Ombudsman.

You also need to check how the council calculates distance. Are your distances based on road/walking route distance or as the crow flies and which measurement does the council use to decide school transport? It can be a different measurement to the one they use for admission purposes.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits thank you so much. And thank you for the link to to the document. I will certainly read that.

So basically. As long as it’s the closest school that can offer a place, the LA has a responsibility for school transport.

As our preferences are pretty much based on distance, whatever we get will be the closest with a place, so, the LA should provide transport.

Ok, I think I get it. But I’m also now armed with lots of information to throw at the LA when they refuse to pay. Thank you. I’m off to join the masses in the village on the school transport costs campaign! Let’s see if we can get this idiotic LA to realise the law does apply to them as well.