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Secondary education

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Ministers considering grade 10 at GCSE and numerical grades for A-level

49 replies

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2021 22:48

inews.co.uk/news/a-levels-ministers-consider-a-switch-to-a-numerical-grading-system-1100624

Basically they've thought 'oh no, grades went a bit high during the pandemic due to our monumental mishandling of the situation, so we're going to bin that grading system instead of fixing it'.

Fuck off you fucking fuckers. So tired of this shit. Do your jobs properly.

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BrainFuz · 14/07/2021 23:24

@NobleGiraffe, are you sure this isn't fake news? It isn't appearing on any trustworthy news outlets as far as I can see.

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2021 23:46

Is i not trustworthy?

I'm willing to bet quite a lot of money that it has been thrown around as a potential solution to the problem next year of deciding what on earth to do about the huge grade inflation of the pandemic.

This article has Ofqual suggesting that it will take years to get back to 2019 levels of grading...www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/exam-grade-inflation-unlikely-to-return-to-pre-pandemic-levels-immediately

With the interesting comment "The time lost in this academic year varies greatly according to locality, according to school and according to how the pandemic has unfolded in particular areas. One way of taking account of that is in the grading system"

Regional grade boundaries according to covid rates?

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BrainFuz · 15/07/2021 07:32

Is i not trustworthy?

The article doesn't mention it's source, and other news outlets haven't picked up the story. That rings alarm bells for me. A responsible news outlet wouldn't publish something like that unless it was verified by at least 2 sources. Even if the journo has a mate in the DfE and there's some truth in it, it could just be a bit of "what if" analysis - the sort of thing that civil servants are asked to look at and evaluate. Many, many things are 'considered' but never go anywhere. The only need here is that a journo is making a few quid put of writing some clickbait, and you're helping him to increase the number of clicks.

For anyone thinking of clicking - be warned - it will take you at least 15 minutes to manually turn off all the vendors' "legitimate interest' cookies.

BrainFuz · 15/07/2021 07:34

P.s. One of many articles that will tell you which media content you can trust:
www.americanpressinstitute.org/publications/six-critical-questions-can-use-evaluate-media-content/

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2021 07:37

Many, many things are 'considered' but never go anywhere

Well obviously. It does, however, show that they are concerned about what to do with the grade profile next year (as backed up by the Ofqual R4 interview) and have no idea how to tackle it as an issue.

So we need to watch this space.

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UserAtLarge · 15/07/2021 08:26

With the interesting comment "The time lost in this academic year varies greatly according to locality, according to school and according to how the pandemic has unfolded in particular areas. One way of taking account of that is in the grading system"

One of DC's teachers suggested that it might be a combination of exam and teacher assessment (with the view, I assume that teacher assessment would take into account how the child had coped with remote learning/how much time they had been self isolating/if they'd had Covid etc). But again, that's likely to provide higher grades than the "standard" profile.

Is it actually an issue if twice (say) as many students get level 9 as usual? Is there anything you can get onto with a 9 you can't with a 7 or an 8?

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2021 08:54

Grade 9 isn’t the issue there. This year we’ve certainly had students taking A-level maths because they got an algorithm 6 even though they were Foundation students. They have struggled.

There will be students who have similarly got 4s and got onto college courses with a maths requirement that might be stretched.

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BrainFuz · 15/07/2021 08:57

It does, however, show that they are concerned about what to do with the grade profile next year (as backed up by the Ofqual R4 interview) and have no idea how to tackle it as an issue.

An objective person might conclude they are exploring multiple ideas of how to tackle it as an issue, as they should be - that is their job. There won't be an easy answer, and whatever they do they'll be criticised.

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2021 09:09

Bit defensive, Brainfuz

I’m sure under the charismatic leadership of Gav, whatever they come up with will be clear, fair, and communicated to schools well in advance of any changes. And that schools won’t find out through leaks to favoured newspapers.

Oh no, wait. Going on past experience, it will be the complete opposite and schools will have to mop up the chaos caused by an incompetent DfE once again.

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BrainFuz · 15/07/2021 09:15

Not defensive, no, because I've got no personal involvement. But I'm an objective person and sometimes find it hard to say nothing when I see others not being objective. I may be whistling in the wind, but that's my choice.

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2021 09:20

But no one is saying it’s definitely going to happen, merely reporting that it is being considered.

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BiBabbles · 15/07/2021 09:22

FFS, they just love adding things other than the resources that would help schools.

I dont know the American or Australian systems well enough - but isnt there a level that's seen as a high school pass, and is seen as acceptable rather than "not an A". Alongside harder courses for uni etc.

At least in the States, this varies widely and can change (in my 4 years of high school, there were 3 separate standards for this), but many states have a state wide 'proficency test' minimum standard alongside what the school requires to graduate (there are more and more legally required for that as well). Some have more than one proficiency test throughout high school that have to passed to get a diploma.

portico · 19/07/2021 11:12

My son achieved a Grade 9 in Biology in the 2019 GCSEs. He scored around 68%. Surely, 68% should equate to a strong 6. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with the 9, but surely grades must be able to demonstrate clear differentiation. Fix the grades rather than add new ones!

pointythings · 19/07/2021 11:21

portico grade boundaries are not static. They change every year depending on how the cohort does and on how difficult a paper is perceived to be. If grade boundaries were static, i.e. 68% was always a 6, then there would be no consistency between years at all. Theoretically it would be possible for 100% of the cohort to get a 9, or a 1. Grade boundaries need to flex because people and papers are different every year.

noblegiraffe · 19/07/2021 16:59

But yes, we shouldn't be having exams where only a tiny percent of students get over 68%. That is bad exam-writing.

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TotorosCatBus · 19/07/2021 19:22

@portico

My son achieved a Grade 9 in Biology in the 2019 GCSEs. He scored around 68%. Surely, 68% should equate to a strong 6. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy with the 9, but surely grades must be able to demonstrate clear differentiation. Fix the grades rather than add new ones!
The new GCSEs were designed by ex public school boys trying to pretend that they can bring their challenging superior education to the masses. Totally designed on the back of a fag packet stuff

The old exams were criticized for being too easy and not rigorous enough by politicians as well as media. By having a grade 9 as 69% they are "proving" rigour.

Remember that GCSE grades are worked out on what the top x% scored that year. If you award everyone who scored 90% a 9 which is what you seem to suggest, there will be nobody scoring a 9 or an exam that much easier than the current system and in that case why bother reforming them.

AlexaShutUp · 19/07/2021 19:32

My dd has just finished her GCSEs. She would have excelled regardless of whether it was teacher evaluation or exams. She is exactly the type of kid who would end up with a string of 10s if they introduced this. But how would that benefit anyone?

My own view, having seen dd and her friends go through the system over the last couple of years, is that we should just scrap GCSEs altogether. We don't need them any more. Kids need to be in education or training until they're 18, so let's just put enough advice and assessment in place to enable them to move on to the most appropriate next steps - be that A-levels, vocational training or apprenticeships etc. It doesn't have to be one size fits all. We should work with individuals to guide them through the options.

There is so much pressure on kids' mental health. Some kids, like dd, will find the academic stuff easy and sail through. Others will struggle, lose confidence, start self harming etc. There is unnecessary pressure on schools and teachers too. So much focus on targets rather than teaching. Why not just ease it and let them take qualifications at 18 instead? I honestly don't see what value GCSEs add.

noblegiraffe · 17/08/2021 14:40

This story isn’t going away…the numerical grades for A-levels bit at least.

Now being reported in the TES as the preferred option for 2023 to address grade inflation www.tes.com/news/levels-no10-discussing-numerical-grades-2023

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TeenMinusTests · 17/08/2021 16:16

This is how I would do it.

  1. have a fixed-ish standard for pass grade 4. So whether or not you pass is based on your attainment not that of the cohort.
  2. of those that pass give certain proportion each of the grades above.
  3. not faff about trying to distinguish the top 2% at GCSE level. Absolutely pointless.
BigWoollyJumpers · 17/08/2021 16:22

There isn’t any need to introduce a grade 10, they just need to go back to the original small percentage of kids who were getting grade 9s before the pandemic. If they return to pre-pandemic proportions of kids getting grades, does it really matter that for a couple of cohorts they’ll have more grade 9s/passes than other year groups?

Exactly this. There have been two years of anomoly, which is fine considering the circumstances. The only reason there are so many top grades is that they haven't been nationally moderated. What everybody seems to forget is grade boundaries at the top are tiny, one mark either way is an 8/9. The marks at the top are already squashed, what benefit to introduce a further band?

FrippEnos · 17/08/2021 16:39

The whole reason for marking on a bell curve was to stop this type of rubbish.

What it does show (IMO) is that even when the exam boards produce exams and NEA of sufficient "rigour" each year group is different some significantly so.

FreekStar2 · 18/08/2021 09:32

Oh FFS! We KNEW this would happen the minute they invented the new system with 9 at the top- in 20 years time there'll be grades 1-57 or something ridiculous! The gov. are idiots!

It won't be long before the whole system is scrapped for something else!

portico · 18/08/2021 10:33

[quote noblegiraffe]This story isn’t going away…the numerical grades for A-levels bit at least.

Now being reported in the TES as the preferred option for 2023 to address grade inflation www.tes.com/news/levels-no10-discussing-numerical-grades-2023[/quote]
This worries the hell out of me, especially as my DS just about scraped the grades he needed for his chosen A Levels. I don’t think they can consider, agree and deploy the A-level numerical grades in 2 years - there’s too many moving parts involved.

Btw, Noblegiraffe, quick qn on A Level Grade boundaries for Edexcel Maths. Do you know why they never specify the A* grade boundary per paper, but do it instead as an aggregated numerical figure for all papers

PeachesPumpkin · 21/08/2021 23:15

I think it’s a very good idea.
The other option is to downgrade this coming year’s GCSE cohort’s results - that would be very unfair.

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