Which ones to visit (and how to order them)?

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We are aware it’s getting scarily closer. We’re choosing secondary school this year for September 2022. We choose 4. We have worked out the closest 8 schools but want to narrow this down. We don’t want to be visiting 8 if it can be avoided (assuming we can visit - see how things go).
I have a general thought on which 4/5 we should visit. As does DH. But we have differing opinions.

The question is

1. Based on the face value data/facts that are available (I’ve given then below) which schools would you be visiting? (And why?)
2. Which order of preference would you be putting the schools?

In order of closest to the house first:

a)
OFSTED Good.
Progress 8: -0.14.
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 32%.
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 54%
Journey: 30 min walk or 15 min walk/bus combination.
Other: Good extra curricular range. They get put into bands and pathways for GCSEs. Average staff turnover. Pastoral care ok. Never seems to be anyone’s 1st choice but those who get it are happy. Nothing in place really for Y7 transition unless at a catholic feeder. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: Low. The cut off was in catholic feeders last year (DC not at one) and catholics the year before (DC not catholic) but year before that we would have got a place on distance.

b)
OFSTED inadequate.
Progress 8: -0.54.
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 27%.
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 49%
Journey: 30 min walk or 15 min walk/bus combination.
Other: Completely new management which has been in place around 2 years. New “creative curriculum” which allows pupils to choose what they study in DT and arts. Wide range of GCSEs (apart from the restriction to everyone but top set does double science). Arts award, STEM award, cooking awards, John muir, outdoors leader awards etc all offered as part of the main timetable/creative curriculum idea. Parents have seen a real turn around in the school and it was more popular last year than ever before. Very good with SEND pupils. Very good pastoral care system. Wide variety of extra curricular. Exceptional with Y7 transition with Y7 head and new form teacher visiting all schools where at least 1 child is going and they have a week in school before the rest of the school returns. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: Guaranteed. Very undersubscribed and closest non-denominational.

c)
OFSTED outstanding.
Progress 8: 0.51
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 43%
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 76%
Journey: 35 mins (15 walking+20 on bus)
Other: Good management, lots of links with local employers and careers education is big, lots of extra curricular and enrichment. Seems to limit GCSEs to pathways based on prior attainment. SEND support good. Management good but the head and one of the SLT has recently left. Good with Y7 transition organising a couple of days in school and reaching out to the new Y7 before they start. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: None. We wouldn’t have qualified for any of the past 5 years.

d)
OFSTED Good.
Progress 8: -0.28
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 42%
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 61%
Journey: 50 mins (25 walking+25 on bus)
Other: Seems to be ultra-catholic. Restricts curriculum depending on ability. Not many extra-curricular activities. Pastoral care is not very good apparently. Reports of bullying and low level disruption are increasing from parents I know. Very high staff turnover. Doesn’t seem to do anything for Y7 transition.
Chance of a place: very low, not catholic and in the distance category we lived too far away for 4/5 of the past years.

e)
OFSTED Requires Improvement.
Progress 9: -0.47
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 34%
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 50%
Journey: 50 mins (30 walking+20 on bus)
Other: Bounces between RI and Inadequate but the current management seem to know what they are doing. Good range of GCSEs (again, has the double science restriction on all sets except top set). Going to introduce the “creative curriculum” thing. High number of SEND pupils but does ok by them. Pastoral care outstanding. Not a lot of extra curricular. Good with Y7 transition by visiting all schools where at least 1 child is going. They do a “summer school” week at the end of Y6.
Chance of a place: Guaranteed. Undersubscribed every year.

f)
OFSTED Good.
Progress 9: 0.26
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 63%.
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 81%
Journey: I work near this school, about a 15 min walk away, so DC can go in the car with me and walk up the road. If I’m not working it would still have to be the car because the public transport to it from our house is dreadful.
Other: Catchment is middle class (everyone has a job/expensive house kind of catchment) and a few outliers like us and the very top of a council estate. Few disadvantaged children except for SEND. Has a large specialist SEND department. Good range of extracurricular. Has an enrichment/careers afternoon each week depending on year group. Children very well behaved and happy. Parents very happy. Very good range of GCSEs but restricts triple science to the chosen few. Good with Y7 transition reaching out to the new Y7, inviting them into school for a couple of days and they are in school for 2 days before the rest of the school returns. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: Very low. Depends on the birth rate and siblings this year, children in the area/street do go here. Low birth rate and siblings then we get a place.

g)
OFSTED Good
Progress 9: -0.47
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 33%
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 54%
Other: 60 mins (30 walking+30 train) or 40/45 mins (10/15 cycling aka sitting down while rolling down a hill+30 train) or I can drop DC on the way to work and pick them up again as long as they do an after school activity or homework club.
Other: Current management who got the school from inadequate to good and kept it there seem to know what they are doing. Low staff turnover. Wide range of GCSEs and nothing restricted because of ability. Careers education from year 7. Very good range of extra curricular activities. SEND pupils well supported. Parents seem to like it and think it is a very caring school. Very good with Y7 transition. Children visit for 2 days, school provides activities for them to do in the summer term and some small activities over the summer holidays. They are in school a week before the rest of the school returns. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: High. Undersubscribed every year but the numbers are increasing yearly almost to the full PAN last year.

h)
OFSTED outstanding.
Progress 8: 0.17
GCSE maths and English at 5+ 55%
GCSE maths and English at 4+ 78%
Journey: 50 mins (10 walking+40 on bus)
Other: Strong management and the head had been in place nearly 10 years. Very low staff turnover. John muir, arts award, STEM award all part of the normal curriculum. Encourages hands on and active learning. Encourages project work and putting theory into practice in all lessons. Very wide range of extra curricular. Very wide range of GCSEs and nothing is restricted because of ability. Careers education and links with local employers/colleges/unis from Y7.
Outstanding pastoral care. Anyone I’ve spoken to loves it. It got very positively reviewed by the good schools guide. Fantastic with Y7 transition, provide activities during the summer term and holidays, Y6 have an induction week and are in school a week before the rest of school return. Has a 6th form.
Chance of a place: Medium. Children from the area go here and some from further away do as well. Always oversubscribed but we’re always within the cut off distance.

I appreciate the data given is for the latest results so is a couple of years old and public transport time tables do change so might not be the same next year but that’s the data/facts we have to work with which is why I’ve given a little bit of “other” from recent conversations with parents and from info on the schools’ websites.

Thanks for reading this far

I would:

• not bother with any you have no chance of getting a place at
• probably aim to avoid an inadequate (unless new HT in place and interim inspections positive), but would go to see an RI if on an upwards trajectory
• not like any journey time above 30mins if it could be avoided but it seems like for you it can't really, though I'd take it into account

So rule out a-d, see the others and go from there?
Order f, h, g, e?

What are your priorities?

Ours were Pastoral care, and academic support for mid achievers and SEN. Out of the 2 comps in our town picking the right school was a no brainer.

Look at b too, you might prefer it to e?

Firstly, it depends on your DC. You need a list of needs/wants from a school. What type of school is going to suit them?

You mention SEND a lot. Is this important? Does your DC have a EHCP? This can influence the schools you can get into which otherwise are off limits to you. Perhaps this is why you have focussed in on Y7 transition? Is this an important thing your DC needs?

You mention triple science a lot as well. Is your DC very into science but might get restricted because of the “pathways”? If so this influences your decision as you want to make sure your DC can access the triple science regardless of “pathway” or ability.

If it was me, ignoring SEND and ability level, I would be thinking:

Don’t bother with

School C - you have no chance it’s a waste of time
School D - don’t like the sound of bullying/low level disruption
School E - if it’s bouncing around it’s not good. Might have new management but so does school B and that sounds better and without the journey.

Bother with

School A - it’s your closest you may as well investigate
School B - it’s your closest that you have a good chance at and sounds like it’s on the up. Could be the place to be in a couple of years and you don’t want to miss out on that
School F - sounds very good seems like they are inclusive and do well for me it’s only really the days youre not working that would put me off but if you can cope with the driving then this would be a good place to be
School G - seems a good school what would put me off if the journey but if you can do the drop off and pick up then no reason not to consider it
School H - sounds like a fantastic school and you have a chance of a place. I like how they integrate theory and practic I think this is important

How would I order them from best to worst? That’s a difficult one based on a limited amount of information but I’ll have a go
H, F, G, B, A, for the ones to look at.

H, F, C, G, B, A, E, B, for all.

Taking into consideration you mentioned triple science, SEND and Y7 transition a lot (making an assumption these are your priorities? Sorry if I’m wrong)
Making each one the top priority I would go
Science - H, F, G, B
SEND - F, G, B, H
Transition - B, G, H, F

I'd say
a- I'd go and see if you weren't seeing too many others as it's your closest school
b - sounds like this would at least be worth putting as fallback option, and is a school on the up, so definitely worth a look
c- Don't waste your time if no chance
d- nothing to recommend it from your definition
e - similar comments to b
f - I would probably go and see, but logistically this doesn't sound great -if you child goes here they will have very little independence and you will spend a lot of time being a taxi service. I'd have a worry that this school didn't do so well with children that didn't fit their "nice middle class, no SEN, round peg in round hole mould" so would want to check this out.
g and h I'd personally consider too far/too hard to get to. But then I'm a big fan of the local school and minimising commuting option!

@TeenMinusTests and @UserAtRandom thanks for your thoughts. Really helpful.
Teen - thanks for the idea to look at interim reports. I’ve scanned the main ones but didn’t think about the others. In all honesty, I know I listed the OFSTED but I wasn’t considering it too much knowing they are all very out of date and things in a couple of the schools have changed a lot recently. The inadequate one has actually joined a new academy trust which is why the whole management has changed. I think technically it’s a new school and the OFSTED is from the old one?

@HairySandwiches. Wow! You can read through the lines can’t you aha! I was trying to be non obvious to avoid any bias to try and sense what others think/would do. I can see I did really well....
Yes, science, SEND and Y7 transition are important. Science and Y7 transition more important than SEND. DS does have mild SEND, but doesn’t have an EHCP. SEND is important in that the school has to understand DC and be able to help when needed but DC doesn’t need any specialist support as such. DC is intelligent and primary has said DC achieves highly, we have noticed this at home as well. DC just a bit slow at grasping concepts, this can take between a few minutes longer to a few weeks longer than others, but, when they are understood, DC doesn’t forget them and is off at 100 mph, especially with science. DC loves all things science. Y7 transition is important, DC can be very socially awkward/shy/won’t talk to others/withdrawn until DC has know them a bit (usually after a couple of weeks) and they have included DC in what they are doing. Thank you for your breakdown with the 3 priorities as well as your general opinion.

Just a few comments:

What a school may be 'advertising' at the moment may well be far off what they usually do due to all the Covid stuff. So it is definitely worth asking what they do in normal times, and whether they do extra for children with SEN.

I suspect few schools are completely free for all on who gets to do triple science. They will restrict it to pupils who they think can cope. (Though limiting to just 30 does sound a bit too restricted).

As a point about transition, we didn’t have any last year and have today cancelled year 6 transition for this year. Don’t bank on transition looking the same next year as it did 3 years ago.

My DC's school often has about 50% of the year taking triple science. (And many good scientists take combined, so this is not even the top 50%). Children with lower ability are dissuaded from taking triple, but even then this is not unsurmountable if they make a good case.

I also wouldn't focus massively on transition. DC's school has formally just 1 transition day but they do a lot of stuff to "look after" the new Year 7s just on an ongoing basis that isn't formally called transition. What they do with Year 7s once they are in, is just as important as what they do before they start!

I like the sound of school b. It’s local - I’m a big fan of staying local. It’s on the up, the curriculum sounds exciting and innovative, lots on offer, good with pastoral and SEND which it sounds like you might use. Don’t worry about Y7 transition. If you are then ask. I would ask about the triple science. They might let your DC do it if they have an aptitude for it.

School h I like the sound of too. All the hands on practical learning is good for science which is a practical kind of subject. Lots on offer and no restriction on science. Again, good pastoral which might need. Only thing is you haven’t mentioned SEN. Might want to investigate this a bit more. Also, the journey, is that one bus or several? One bus is ok, several and it’s not worth the hassle.

School g seems a good school. Caring is what you might need with a child who doesn’t like new people/places. Also you have the triple science and good SEN support. The journey could be a nightmare. You might become a taxi service. Do many other children in your area go here? If not then your DC might not have many friends or if school and this is important. Might be a good back up school/place holder for the 4th choice.

School f could be good because of the SEN department. I would question whether you want to turn into a taxi service and the potential of local friends. With a SEN department, the school might make an allowance for your DC to be in the triple science group.

Maybe school e. Seems similar to b but with a long journey.

I wouldn’t bother with a or c if you aren’t going to get a place. You are wasting your time.
School d sounds like it’s going on the wrong direction so stay clear.

Based on what you want in a School id maybe be saying definitely b, h, then g or e or f (I can’t figure out which I’d put without visiting them myself tbh). That’s 5, I think 5 when you have to choose 4 is a reasonable amount to look at.

I haven’t read your options yet. I’m going to apply my formula of

• no journey longer than 40/45 mins
• rule out anything with no chance of a place
• ignore current friendship groups but make sure there will be other children in the local area who go to the same school. Out of school friends who are local are important in teenagers development
• use OFSTED in context for a full picture rather than a number to rule something out
• consider the needs of the child

Let’s see what the formula brings up.....

Well applying just the journey and chance of a place leaves
b, f, and maybe g as long as your DC takes to the cycling.

Of those I would be seriously considering b over f and g because of the locality so local friends and short journey. On the up. The last OFSTED won’t be the OFSTED for the new academy trust/management. If it’s more than a couple of years old it’s now irrelevant. Results on the low side but are they improving - hard to tell at the minute unfortunately. Allowing choice and lots of recognised awards etc is motivating for teenagers. Good SEN which you will use if your DC has mild SEN.

I would consider f over b and g because of the SEND department, better results (but this might reflect its catchment if is has few disadvantaged children) although progress 8 high so could just be really good teaching. Like the idea of an enrichment afternoon. Wouldn’t like taking them to school in the car every day, they won’t have their independence. How do the DC in your area get there? Are they all driven?

I would consider g over b and f purely based on the caring ethos and triple science. Results look good. Slightly below average but nothing to worry about. Your DC would have independence on the train rather than the car. Can they take their bike on the train if they need it at the other end? Can you get the journey time down and drive to the station? (Not ideal but could be manageable. Saying that, the car does give you the flexibility on a bad rainy winters day when you could take them all the way in. Plus, unlike f, you have public transport to this one, even if it is awkward. Would there be any local friends though? Do any others in your area go to this school? If not it’s a 3rd choice.

As that only left 3 schools I would say, also look at school a as you might have a chance depending on admissions this year of a place because it is your closest. I would also consider h. Although you can’t take DC in the car, and the journey is 50 minutes, as a PP said - is it one bus as more than that is a no for me, it also sounds like your DC will have local friends, the progress 8 is good as are results, your DC will have science options and there are a lot of activities and extra curricular which are encouraging links with school b. I know school e is also 50 minutes but h looks to be the better school.

I would probably have them in an order of

1. b
2. f
3. h - as long as it’s one bus, otherwise g
4. If h is 3 then g, if g is 3 then a.

Thanks all.
Some really great suggestions and things to think about there. We will stop concentrating too much on Y7 transition. You've all given us some great things we can ask the schools.

I think we are looking for a school

• for a borderline middle/high attainer with slight SEND
• where DC study triple science in the future if they want to
• where DC can have some friends locally
• a journey which encourages independence as much as possible but isn't stupidly awkward.

@AlphabetSpaghettis and @NotAvailableIsntAvailable, yes, school h is one bus. Quite a few children from our area do make the journey daily.
School f, the DC are mostly driven but there seems to be some car sharing between families. As for school g, I only know of one child in our area that goes there, but more go there who live nearer to the station. Its not a natural transition. I can see what you are saying about having friends out side of school. Lots to think about regarding transport for this one as you highlighted. Thanks for that.

I can see a lot saying to stay local and avoid long journeys. Thanks for this advice. I think from this it is wiser to look at school b over school e as they could be offering the same thing but with one being a lot closer than the other. (Plus I think I actually like the sound of b better than e, especially now I've done a bit more research). Still going to look at h though because both DH and myself listed it, its one bus and a lot go there. Also don't want to rule out g just yet because DH prefers g to e and he's quite happy to drive DC to the train station in the morning which reduces the journey to 35/40 minutes. We cant do this with e, its still a 50 minute journey.

I think mostly the consensus is to look at schools a, b, e, f, g, h.

I was thinking h, b, e, and wasn't sure between a or g.
DH was thinking more of c, f, h and d or a. Although he has since admitted he didn't think about anything but OFSTED and results but MN has made him see sense aha.

Anyways, we seem to have made a short list of a, b, f, g and h. A nice compromise of both our lists and brilliant MN advice.

Thanks again everyone.