Final warning meeting.

[Dilraj68]

Have any of you had a governors meeting with the Head regarding your child's behaviour? If so, what was the outcome.

No experience.

Is your child just badly behaved, or is there any SN / receipt of bullying which the school aren't properly supporting?

I guess you / your DC need to think about options:

• either they really commit to behaving
• would a 'managed move' to a different school help reset things
• otherwise sounds like next step would be permanent exclusion which I guess leads to a PRU?

Must be very stressful for you.

@TeenMinusTests

No experience.

Is your child just badly behaved, or is there any SN / receipt of bullying which the school aren't properly supporting?

She's impulsive and says the wrong thing in the heat of the moment, she's constantly fat shamed and feels the need to be friends with everyone. We had our first zoom meeting on Saturday morning for a possible ADHD diagnosis so hopefully that'll go in our favour. The final stage is permanent exclusions which we're all dreading. Over the half term we've, as a family had a good long hard chat about the severity of the situation and how much she should redeem herself.

It's really, really stressing me out, DD hasn't been able to ficus all weekend and there's no end of year exams starting next Monday. Getting too much for me.

So what has she actually done behaviour-wise to get to a final warning meeting? Can you give examples?

“Says the wrong thing in the heat of the moment” is very vague.

I think you need to accept that the most likely outcome is that she is excluded. For it to get this far the school will be very done with her and any misstep will be used as a reason to exclude her. It sounds like you've really struggled to help her control her behaviour. A fresh start somewhere else might not be the worse thing in the world. Also I look into what parenting courses are available to you.

@Tangled22

So what has she actually done behaviour-wise to get to a final warning meeting? Can you give examples?

“Says the wrong thing in the heat of the moment” is very vague.

I'm too ashamed to write it here but she's been accused of using racist language. While we are people of colour, I am absolutely mortofied and ashamed of that it's come to this. She finds it hard to stay out of other people's business and has to join in. This is where she ends up in hot water.

Sorry but can you clarify what a 'final warning meeting' actually is?

Governors do no usually get involved in the actual discipline within a school. Governors discipline committee (might have another name) are there to review the decisions made and either to upheld them or to ask for reinstatement.

You need to be familiar with the school behaviour policy - which will be on the web site, the governments school exclusion policy www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusion and also the SEN policy for the school.

Schools really really really do not want to exclude children. But sometimes they really have no choice. You need to make sure the school have done everything they can to support your child to remain in school. But as someone upthread suggested - if relationships have completely broken down would a move elsewhere be in her best interests?

The governors pupil discipline review panel are meeting to discuss her behaviour.

@Mumdiva99

Sorry but can you clarify what a 'final warning meeting' actually is?

Governors do no usually get involved in the actual discipline within a school. Governors discipline committee (might have another name) are there to review the decisions made and either to upheld them or to ask for reinstatement.

You need to be familiar with the school behaviour policy - which will be on the web site, the governments school exclusion policy www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusion and also the SEN policy for the school.

Schools really really really do not want to exclude children. But sometimes they really have no choice. You need to make sure the school have done everything they can to support your child to remain in school. But as someone upthread suggested - if relationships have completely broken down would a move elsewhere be in her best interests?

Yes, I'm thinking that the panel will meet to discuss the decision made by the school and to listen to us.

OP what year is she in? If it is one where a fresh start is feasible (so I mean KS3) then that may be the best thing. If she is at the end of yr 10 then it is more difficult.

You are using language that suggests minimising of what has happened "says the wrong thing"; "ends up in hot water" which is understandable, as it is your child. But if it has got this far, it must be more than saying the wrong thing a few times.

Sorry you are having to deal with this. I have no direct experience, but agree with others, schools do not permanently exclude lightly. IME it takes something very serious (examples I have known include drugs, bringing a knife to school - not saying your DD has done that!).

A managed move would be a fresh start for her, and may actually be a really good thing. Which year is she? I doubt it's too late to turn things around if she's positive about altering her behaviour, and receives the support she needs (we have taken managed moved at start of Y11, and those children been v successful- but they have to want their success, and work for it!).
Good luck

So the head has recommended permanent exclusion? If so review the policies I suggested. See if they have been followed. Then take it from there.

It does sound like you just tried to get a diagnoses of SEN after the school has informed you of their decision.....on Saturday.....today is Monday.....you were probably told last Friday perhaps..... If that is not the case and was something you have been trying to get for a while then make sure everyone knows the full details of this.

Sorry but there is a need to understand what the exact situation is. In terms of exclusion the only person who can exclude is the headteacher. Governors are not involved in the original decision to exclude at all. However as and when the headteacher makes a decision to exclude then a panel of governors can be called upon to act as an appeal panel depending on exactly what the decision of the headteacher is.
Having reviewed the posts I think that OP is in a different situation. Some schools have a governors panel which acts as a final warning to pupil and parents. So the pupil has got to a point where the next logical step is an exclusion and the governors panel is for want of anything better to say, is "last chance saloon" time.
Personally I think this is really poor practice as it is taking authority away from the headteacher. Secondly it means that the governors that are on this panel are then not available for a genuine situation of an appeal around an exclusion and thirdly as we have here, it tends to cause confusion about just exactly what is the jurisdiction of this panel.
I would recommend OP that you ask the school to explain exactly what is the remit of this panel before you go anywhere near having a meeting with them because you just might say the wrong thing.
If it is a "last chance saloon" situation then you need to be going to the meeting saying that you will do anything appropriate to keep your child in school but you also need to be asking the school how this can be achieved and what they as a school intend to do to help in turning around the poor behaviour.

I am a Chair of Governors of a secondary school and do these meetings fairly often. It is part of our pathway to try to avoid a future permanent exclusion- essentially the purpose is to try to persuade the student to modify concerning behaviour as they look to be on a path to permanent exclusion. The outcome from the meeting is likely to be a letter giving you/your daughter a ‘final warning’. The outcome will not be a permanent exclusion- that is a different process, essentially the head recommends a permanent exclusion and the governors have to decide whether or not to uphold it- you would have received formal paperwork and support from the local authority if that was happening.

Different boards of governors will run their warning hearings differently- what I do is get the head to explain the issues, then ask the pupil to explain their behaviour, what motivated it, get them to think through what they might do to break future patterns of behaviour. We also talk through whether there is anything the school could do differently to hopefully avoid a future permanent exclusion. I try to set the tone as formal but supportive- I want students to think that they don’t want to find themselves back in front of me in future in a permanent exclusion, but we also want to focus on what is needed to move forward. Hope that’s useful

YellowMeeple
The reason why I have some concerns about this kind of governor panel is because of what you say in your post. You say "I want students to think that they don’t want to find themselves back in front of me in future in a permanent exclusion."
If that was the case then in my LA there would be a real question about whether you could be objective around the circumstances of the PE, given you have effectively already given the pupil a final warning. Do you as a GB have sufficient governors who have not been potentially tainted to have another panel is the question that needs to be asked.

@admission

YellowMeeple The reason why I have some concerns about this kind of governor panel is because of what you say in your post. You say "I want students to think that they don’t want to find themselves back in front of me in future in a permanent exclusion." If that was the case then in my LA there would be a real question about whether you could be objective around the circumstances of the PE, given you have effectively already given the pupil a final warning. Do you as a GB have sufficient governors who have not been potentially tainted to have another panel is the question that needs to be asked.

Short answer is ‘yes’ and enough for another set if there was to be an appeal. I can only think of one instance where it has been an issue though (and in that case there was a four year gap between the warning and the eventual exclusion) as it’s something our head only does if he thinks it is likely to change the future trajectory- maybe a couple of cases a year, usually of year 7/8 students where a worrying pattern is developing. Never for someone we think might be at immediate risk of permanent exclusion.

I appreciate all governing boards and schools will work in different ways. I am comfortable that we are using one possible technique appropriately, with the ultimate aim of trying to avoid future permanent exclusions. The purpose of my post was to try to reassure OP that this process is not going to lead to disaster scenarios of exclusion as a result of this meeting.

Gosh. Having supported a friend's child through a process which looked like it was heading towards exclusion, and ended up with Sen support, as well as teaching courses on challenging behaviour... I am really surprised YellowMeeples set up is allowed or considered a good idea.

Certainly OP you need to work with the school. Identify what "triggers" the behaviour, what they could do to support her (for some children for example they have a card they show when they are finding everything too much and can escape for a couple of minutes to avoid exploding. Others need a visual timetable etc etc varies for each child.)

Have you had a lot of meetings leading up to this? Have they said what support is in place? We had someone from the council sit in who had some good suggestions as well as helping to veer towards inclusion.

Is there pastoral support in school? How is she at home? How long has adhd been suppected? Adhd (underdiagnosed in girls) often leads to a child being labelled as naughty/behavioural problems when what is needed is support for their condition, managing anxiety and triggers (possibly medication!?). Repeatedly being told they are "bad" for something they haven't yet learnt to control is a downward spiral.

Just being told "to behave" rarely works if the child is already struggling.

There are so many unknowns here.
Have they just escalated punishments to a "final warning" or has there been pastoral/sendco involvement.

Have you had any support with this OP?

Theres a good book called The Explosive Child which is often recommended. But right now school is the worry a d working with school to support your child.

Sendias can help if a special ed need is identified.

Sorry for the waffle as Ive not slept but wishing you all the best.