SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2022

[SkaterGrrrrl]

I watched with interest the information and support on this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4177427-PART-3-SW-London-Girls-Indies-11-Results-Decisions-Panic-Over and wanted to start the same thread for South West London parents with daughters who will be applying for secondaries (independents and grammar) for places in year 7 in Sept 2022.

Where are you applying, how are the virtual open days going..... and to tutor or not to tutor?

I was wondering if anyone knows how much the schools over-offer by (particularly Emanuel and LU but interested to know for other schools too as a comparison)? Do they immediately offer a lot more places than they have, knowing that some children will be holding multiple offers - or do they go to the waitlist quickly? The number of applicants to places is quite scary at these schools as 11 Feb gets closer so trying to understand the process better. Thanks!

travelturtle, they won't usually share the exact numbers but if you look at 11+ result of nearby prep schools, it will give you an idea. Also just consider the overlap in applicants, it's the same kids applying to similar schools, usually about 4-5 of them, and only the school that is first choice will see most accepting their offers. Unless you are St Paul's or Westminster, you have to over offer by a lot (can be 2x the number of places or more). They don't always get it right but they have an idea based on previous years.

@travelturtle

I was wondering if anyone knows how much the schools over-offer by (particularly Emanuel and LU but interested to know for other schools too as a comparison)? Do they immediately offer a lot more places than they have, knowing that some children will be holding multiple offers - or do they go to the waitlist quickly? The number of applicants to places is quite scary at these schools as 11 Feb gets closer so trying to understand the process better. Thanks!

As far as I heard (so not sure it is right), LU doesn’t oversubscribe much and their reserve list is just about 15. Sounds like nearly 150 offer for 126 places. Hope it helps. Good luck.

@Hanahanna those numbers sound completely off, not sure where you got them from, but Bute House alone tends to have at least 15 kids per year who receive LU offers and don't accept them and head to SPGS instead. I'll be surprised if LU makes less than 200 offers. But of course schools won't share the numbers to claim exclusivity. LU competes with G&L/SPGS for the girls and with St Paul's / Westminster / KCS etc for the boys, the top 200 kids from the LU exam will all have numerous offers of other highly ranked schools.

I always wonder....I think based on historical acceptance rate they have their own algorithms to work on. I suspect popular schools have a high acceptance rate especially the ones in London? St Pauls? I do know that there were loads of movements re waiting lists last year. KGS interviewed around 300 last year and my friends son got a place from waiting list not long after the acceptance deadline.

[quote swgeek]@Hanahanna those numbers sound completely off, not sure where you got them from, but Bute House alone tends to have at least 15 kids per year who receive LU offers and don't accept them and head to SPGS instead. I'll be surprised if LU makes less than 200 offers. But of course schools won't share the numbers to claim exclusivity. LU competes with G&L/SPGS for the girls and with St Paul's / Westminster / KCS etc for the boys, the top 200 kids from the LU exam will all have numerous offers of other highly ranked schools.[/quote]
@swgeek This is what I heard so not sure. Please don’t blame me.

This is just information but I heard from exam consultant. I won’t get involved any more. Sorry.

@Hanahanna sorry it was not meant to criticise you, I just think there is a lot of misinformation out there to scare parents, and it is in the schools' and tutors' interests to freak out parents about how impossible it is. It is competitive of course, but it is not accurate to say that the chances are 1:10 by any means unless you are talking about a superselective grammar school or SPGS.

On the thread a few years ago, when my older dd was going through this process, there was a similar discussion. From what I remember, schools basically have the choice of over-offering by lots and taking the risk of having to run a bulge class, or not over-offering much and taking the risk of having to go deep into their waiting list (which means potentially less good exam results in 5-7 years time).

So depending on site size, different schools have different approaches. I remember that PHS had a system (not sure if it still does) where they had a an extra class every other year. So every other year they will offer more. And I remember someone saying that WHS had to put on an unexpected bulge class one year, and that they were being very conservative as a result as they absolutely couldn’t fit in another one, given their constrained site. Though that may have flowed through the school by now. Also that LEH had a big site, and had had several bulge years as they could accommodate them.

They also have different approaches to waiting lists. WHS puts everyone who gets through to stage 2 on the waiting list, while SPGS is rumoured to have a very small one (people were guessing 10). And for Tiffin, there’s a whole (long) thread on the 11+ forum which shows how their waiting list works, with a mathematical approach to working out if a score will be high enough to get a waiting list place before the start of Y7.

In the end, the key thing is that people release offers they don’t want as quickly as possible, so that schools can go to their waiting lists and that then kicks off a cascade of acceptances and releasing other offers. If dd is lucky enough to get more than one offer, we’ll talk about it and maybe book in a quick offer holders tour if there are two we can’t decide between, but release all the others.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. This part of the process does seem to be quite mysterious and to vary from school to school. As swgeek says, I’m hoping it means that the chances of an offer are better than they seem 😬. We are coming from a state primary so don’t have any guidance from our school on this process. Appreciate all your comments.

@swgeek thank you very much. Understood.

@travelturtle I was in that exact position a few years ago with dd1 (its easier second time around, though dd2 is also at a state primary). It all worked out well, and I do think that not knowing CAT scores or having lots of friends going through the process can be an advantage. But it does feel like flying blind!

@travelturtle

I was wondering if anyone knows how much the schools over-offer by (particularly Emanuel and LU but interested to know for other schools too as a comparison)? Do they immediately offer a lot more places than they have, knowing that some children will be holding multiple offers - or do they go to the waitlist quickly? The number of applicants to places is quite scary at these schools as 11 Feb gets closer so trying to understand the process better. Thanks!

My guess is by 50 % LU and 100% Emmanuel.

We have asked this question at every school we applied to. Sutton High offer to 200 girls, for a year group of 80-100. Surbiton 300 for 120 in a year and KGS was similar, as was Emanuel. Almost all of the schools have gone to waitlist by March in the recent years from what our dd’s prep head has said, plus WhatsApp group for parents. WHS went down low into waitlist last year too. Putney didn’t though. I know a few who got KGS from being told they were low and on the waitlist last year.

Guys..... Stop emailing Surbiton, okay?

@SkaterGrrrrl
Francis Holland did the same 😆
The email literally said that they are writing to inform me that I wouldn't hear from them till 11th 😅

@skaterGrrrrl SO tempted to just ping over a when will we hear email!! One day I'll grow up ....

Oh the agony of waiting. I feel like this 11 plus went far too long. I remember back when my son did it, it was more condensed. All done and know the result really quickly.

DD just came out of her LEH interview, she thinks it went well. She was shown pictures of famous artworks and asked what she thought of them. Apparently yesterday the girls were shown poems at the LEH interview and asked for their feedback.

@Thisisconfusing

My kids were state too so please don't let that feel you are at a massive disadvantage . The schools they apply to know that state school applicants have had a different preparation path in comparison to the prep schools - the latter will have been doing daily test papers for most of last term. The schools are not fooled by the prep school uniforms ( our state school uniform looked really shabby in comparison ) or the number of badges on the blazer lapels. They also know the reports written by the schools might have been less strategically honed and no support in interview practice. Certainly that was my experience . The same schools like Hampton, LEH, LUL, G&L, KGSetc etc all keep on offering year upon year to the kids at our school so they must like what they get. If anything the state school kids might well have had a wider curriculum rather than the entrance prep focus . I think the schools are also pretty good at offering to those who they think will flourish at their school. So if SPGS makes your DD an offer it's because they think she definitely has what it takes. Good luck

Thank you for writing this, thisisconfusing.

I did think DD looked like the poor relation lining up for her LEH interview in her state primary uniform of polo shirt and cardigan, beside girls in smart blazers with shiny prefect badges. I know she has a good brain or she wouldn't be there but you can help but compare. Very reassuring to read your post.

can't

LEH interview sounds serious! our experience with KGS was really just a casual chat!

@SkaterGrrrrl glad to hear it went well for your DD today at LEG, my DD has hers tomorrow afternoon but as she’s currently isolating - having tested positive for covid a few days ago - it is now an online interview. Not ideal but can’t be helped. Anyone else had an online LEH interview this time around?

*LEH not LEG 🙈

Hope it goes well @RM46.