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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

How common is it to get an exam question on topic not covered in revision guide or class?

102 replies

Trevors · 26/05/2021 05:55

So ds just had yr 10 English lit exam. Essay theme was something that isn’t mentioned anywhere is his revision books. It hadn’t been covered in class teaching either.
I’m guessing that once in a while this could happen in a real yr 11 gcse exam but in that case the students would normally have had two full years of teaching so should know the text really well. Current year 10s have had nothing like the teaching they should have had over one year.
What would be the motivation for school setting an obscure theme like this? Ds is really disappointed. For the very first time ever he actually did some revision but now he feels like he wasted his time as no matter how throughly he might have revised he would never have covered this. So, in his eyes now, all revision is pointless and all teachers are just trying to make life difficult and catch students out.
He has been struggling so much with his mental health over the last year, like so many teenagers. This is a blow to his confidence that he just didn’t need right now. I know lots of you will say life is tough, they have just got to suck it up, but honestly, I think they have sucked up enough shit over the last year and this was just unnecessary.

OP posts:

balloonsintrees · 26/05/2021 06:04

Go back to the exam board specification, if it is on there then questions can be asked on it no matter how obscure.
However, as teachers are setting the questions (using those sent out by exam boards) then it should have been covered? Possibly a discrete word with the school? Maybe the head of English determined the exam questions without discussing with the dept. as to what they had already covered.
Teachers aren't out to entrap, honest, my ethos is very much ensuring my students have every opportunity to prove to me how amazing they are and for me to guide them to achieve the best for them as an individual.

redcarbluecar · 26/05/2021 06:13

Maybe school hoped that students would know the literary text well enough to be able to discern the relevant theme, however it’s a bit tough on them if it was really obscure. If the exam doesn’t count for much ie not the final GCSE, maybe the school were trying to show that it can be a tough test.

clary · 26/05/2021 06:30

To answer your question in general op, in some subjects you certainly won't get a theme not in the spec - so no questions on racism in German GCSE as that's an A level topic.

In Eng lit tho there is no specified list of themes that I am aware of. So in theory you could get a question on romance in Macbeth. Can you share the text and question?

FWIW DD had a really challenging R&J extract when she did GCSE (first year of new spec) but in fact she did really well. Maybe they were trying to challenge them and get them to really think around it? Seems a bit harsh tho. I am not a fan of the fact that there is no tiering if Eng lit and no choice either for many of the questions, it's really tough on weaker candidates (not saying your son is weak btw).

1000yardstare · 26/05/2021 06:46

For a Y10 internally set exam that will be used to generate data for performance next year, the school would be mad to throw students a curveball. They're usually old papers....
Has your DS had time off? What are other Y10s saying?

Original poster

Trevors · 26/05/2021 06:47

I don’t have the extract, ds told me the theme and I have searched through the two revision guides he has- not even a brief mention of it.

Ds feels like he has been set up to fail here and I can’t reasonably argue against it. I guess that once in a while the exam board might choose an obscure theme so students can demonstrate that they know the text inside out. But that would be after two full years of study. Not the shit show of education these children have had over the last year. Ds’ mental health is really fragile at the moment he just doesn’t need this. I know that’s true of lots of teenagers.
Basically ds now feels that all revision is a complete waste of time as no matter how hard he had worked he wouldn’t have been prepared for this.
I think all kids are fully aware that life can be very shitty now. They don’t need the lesson reinforced by their teachers choosing a shitty question too.

OP posts:

Original poster

Trevors · 26/05/2021 06:51

Ds was off with corona virus recently so it may have been covered then but I think his friends agreed that they had no idea how to answer it either so probably not.
They were given a booklet with 25 quotes and told that they should learn at least 10 of them off by heart. Only one of the 25 related to this theme. Ds didn’t learn that one.

OP posts:

TheJackieWeaver · 26/05/2021 06:52

Most schools use exam board material for mocks so if it was there, it was probably a question set by the exam board in the past. Honestly, the last thing teachers want is to catch children out. It doesn’t help us or them.

Having said that, we’ve all taught classes where the question in the final exam has surprised us (there was uproar on Twitter a few years ago about a Macbeth question on Banquo, and another time about be Porter scene) so it’s possible they’ve set it to help pupils know how to deal with a ‘curveball’ question.

What was the text and the theme? You’ve several English teachers here so we might be able to tell you where the question came from.

Babymeanswashing · 26/05/2021 06:54

They were given a booklet with 25 quotes and told that they should learn at least 10 of them off by heart

That’s GCSE English lit? That’s really poor teaching.

I’m sorry this has happened. Sometimes you do get a question that’s a bit (the porters scene in Macbeth in 2019, I think, and there was also a horrible one on A Christmas Carol in 2018) but usually the grades are adjusted as such.

I’m not sure it it might be possible to do something - do you know what the question was?

TheJackieWeaver · 26/05/2021 06:57

Oh, and just a thought, my Y10s are studying two new texts. There are no revision guides or Mr Bloody Bruff videos about them. It’s so refreshing reading their own opinions. The best advice you can give your DS is to read and reread the text itself (rather than over rely on resources produced by others). This isn’t a criticism of him. It sounds like he worked hard. The best idea is to know the text inside out though.

Notagardener · 26/05/2021 06:59

I'm presuming that was not the only question. Might be nice for some children to have some more challenging questions.

wonderstuff · 26/05/2021 07:00

My understanding is that the new GCSE exams will often have a question that's either obscure or initially looks like its not on the spec but is an alternative application of some aspect, as a way of getting kids to apply knowledge rather than answer familiar questions. The grade 9 is supposed to be beyond the old A* grade and the GCSE needs to act both as a assessment of most students hitting an appropriate level and as a way of identifying the very brightest. Every year a few questions seem to get attention as the kids aren't expecting them.

I'd imagine that by setting this particular question the school are looking for evidence to award top grades. They won't base judgement on one paper, in our school we have a folder of evidence for each student for each exam. Its frustrating because every year kids do feel discouraged by questions they can't answer, but the exams are designed so some q can only be answered by a very small number of kids.

clary · 26/05/2021 07:05

@Notagardener

I'm presuming that was not the only question. Might be nice for some children to have some more challenging questions.

There is no choice in AQA GCSE Eng lit apart from on the 20c text (and poetry of course in terms of which poem you choose) so probably not.

Which book and which theme was it op? Agree learning 10 of 25 quotes is poor teaching.

TheJackieWeaver · 26/05/2021 07:07

@Notagardener

I'm presuming that was not the only question. Might be nice for some children to have some more challenging questions.

For Literature, it probably was the only question. For Edexcel, only one question (out of seven) offers a choice.

sashh · 26/05/2021 07:12

Ds feels like he has been set up to fail here and I can’t reasonably argue against it. I guess that once in a while the exam board might choose an obscure theme so students can demonstrate that they know the text inside out.

My old maths teacher used to say, "Pray for a hard paper" (RC school) because other people panic and while they are doing that just get on with the paper - I know this was maths not English but the same applies, everyone else is in the same situation.

Babymeanswashing · 26/05/2021 07:16

The problem is, that isn’t true this year so I can understand the upset.

bunburyscucumbersandwich · 26/05/2021 07:21

This is the problem with teaching to the test. No actual idea of what the students know. They only know how to answer a couple of questions, and anything past that they can't do.

SometimesALime · 26/05/2021 07:28

You need to tell us which book and the theme, although most of the past papers are online so easily accessible including the examiner's report on that actual exam about how well students did. I am not an English teacher but have a degree in Eng Lit and helped Ds1 and now Ds2 with English for their GCSEs.

Original poster

Trevors · 26/05/2021 07:28

@Babymeanswashing just looked it up, it was the 2018 Christmas carol question. Is that known as a horrible one then?

OP posts:

Babymeanswashing · 26/05/2021 07:29

Was it about fear?

Original poster

Trevors · 26/05/2021 07:34

Yeah

OP posts:

Ariela · 26/05/2021 07:35

I do think exams have been dumbed down a bit compared to 40 + years ago when I took mine. I found my kids GCSEs a LOT easier than our Olevels across the board, and the grades reflecting that - I got many As at a grammar school but it was unusual to get all grade As as seems the norm now. I am inclined to agree with @wonderstuff it could be their way of wheedling out those that really deserve a 9

Babymeanswashing · 26/05/2021 07:36

Yes, that was the 2018 one. That’s difficult as I guess from the teachers point of view they’ve just chosen a past question. It was a hard one though and the grade boundaries for English lit were very low that year which is probably why.

Babymeanswashing · 26/05/2021 07:36

They really aren’t now ariela, English certainly isn’t.

Original poster

Trevors · 26/05/2021 07:43

I know that these sorts of questions are designed to differentiate the highest grades and they do achieve that aim in the final exam. However, all those students are in set one now anyway, so it doesn’t help differentiate between the rest of them so how will teachers determine sets based on this? Plus, giving a challenging question to current yr 10 students after the disruptions and stress of the last year just demoralises the vast majority who are going to be completely flummoxed by it and now have evidence that revision is pointless, they haven’t got a chance, so why should they bother?

OP posts:

TeenMinusTests · 26/05/2021 07:51

Ariela The problem is you are comparing apples with pears. O levels were only sat by the top 35%. GCSE English lit is sat by everyone. Mark schemes are a lot clearer now, so no secret handshakes needed to know what is being looked for.

Personally, I got As for my English Lang & English Lit O level. I very much doubt I could get an 8 or 9 these days without a lot of teaching (having seen what my DD's have had to do).

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