Careers Advice /Support at Secondary School

[rachelvbwho]

Hi All,

I currently work in HE with students focusing on engagement with industry (think company projects, internships etc) and I have been really surprised by the lack of career direction, career thinking and general knowledge about the future that many of our students have.

I know at universities they have careers teams who in theory cover all this but I wondered if there is a distinct lack of support in this area at schools and FE?

It seems to me like there is a 'gap' in provision and it could be an area to look into developing further. So I'd appreciate your input!

What is your experience of careers support for children at secondary school?
Are you happy with it?
What do you think should be offered?

Thank you!

Isn’t the gap due to under funding..

My dds have had some careers input. But it’s not accessible imo. Experience of FE is that careers teams are more accessible to students when the students require.

When Connexions went most schools had to buy in careers advisors, a lot can’t afford regular sessions.

@Rummikub

Isn’t the gap due to under funding..

Oh yes, I have no doubt it is due to underfunding - apologies for not making that clear.

Zero criticism of the schools here!

I guess I am just curious on what impact the underfunding is having and wanting to look at what can be developped AND what would be useful for schools that wouldn't have an associated cost.

There’s lots of on line resources. Some free.
But don’t think it replaces the face to face process of a professional or experienced adviser.

I also believe that relationship building is essential. Most students will turn to teachers they know or family and friends. Rather than speaking to someone about their hopes, dreams and aspirations to someone they’ve never met and comes in once or twice a year.

DDs school are having parents coming in to give talks and presentations to the 6th form on their careers, how they personally started out, how to enter their profession etc. Zero cost to this but obviously success will depend on having parents involved enough to want to do this.

Personally I have a bit of a ? about careers advice in schools. Who has a clue at 16-18 what they want to do? The careers advice I had myself years ago was useless (I wanted to be a journalist and from the testing I did, it was suggested I become a librarian). However, for DC who do actually have a career in mind, I understand that good advice on the best universities and degree choices to enter that profession can be invaluable.

Traditional careers advice is a bit nonsense nowadays anyway, when the jobs these kids will end up getting are things like growth hacker, digital community organiser, ux designer, and whatever else didn't exist 10 years ago. Kids don't need careers advice, as it used to be, they need skills on how to sell themselves, how to highlight and communicate their transferrable skills, successes, and what their individuality brings to the specific company and role they're applying for. The world is changing too fast and to be honest, most of us are too out of touch to be relevant.

Judging by the job applications I have seen over the last 5 years, what kids desperately need is help in the basics such as how to write a decent CV and cover letter.

Just simple things like getting the name of the company you are applying to correct, or using spell check (and not sending a 5 pager when you have had two part-time jobs in a cafe, nor a one liner inviting the interviewer to 'check my insta to see if your company is a good match for my personality' - yes, I really did receive that).

Otherwise, exposing students to the huge range of careers on offer - especially those outside the mainstream. I remember going round the Warner Bros' Harry Potter Studio and just thinking that nobody ever told me that you could be a prosthetics maker or an architect who specialised in fantasy set building, or a CGI designer.

DD's school seem to ask parents to volunteer to come in and do talks a lot, as well as having a huge range of virtual and non-virtual work experience opportunities you can sign up for. There are careers sessions but as she's in Y7, they're not really aimed at her age group yet.

Completely agree re teaching older students the basics of CV writing and marketing themselves. That goes for graduates as well. I’ve had CVS from Oxbridge grads for marketing roles that involve copy writing and editing that have been pretty shameful!

@rachelvbwho, yes there's a gap, and it's huge. Teachers do their best, but don't necessarily have the knowledge that is needed, especially if they have never worked in any sector other than teaching. Our school is similar to others - it invited parents and other external speakers in to 'inspire' the students by talking about their jobs, perhaps once per term (pre-covid, not this year). This gives a very limited picture of the world of work. It would be much better to focus on the bigger picture of industry sectors (commercial, public sector, NGO, education, etc), types of roles (managerial, analytical, technical, skilled labour, unskilled labour) and routes into employment (entry points/levels for each sector, where roles are advertised, how recruitment consultants fit into the picture, etc), how to find out more (sector/company websites, trade bodies, careers websites), and then lots of case studies from people describing how they got onto the ladder towards their current role, how their careers changed direction over time, etc. If speakers can be invited in then that should be a bonus, not the main focus of the provision.

This is all really helpful, thank you so much.

I agree that if given the opportunity the "careers advice" should be focusing on understanding skills, marketing yourself, reflecting on strengths, overviews od sectors/industries, writing a CV/Cover Letter. Rather than talking about certain 'jobs' that are available which often happens in a traditional careers advice sense-so it is good to hear this feedback from you all too!

It is such a shame funding has been so drastically cut in this area, what seems like a 'fluffy' area to some people does have real impact on the aspirations and options open to our young people as they grow.

I work in HE but with school students (WP team) and we do a lot of careers focused stuff with schools but ultimately they haven’t got time for it. We offer completely free events, transport provided, focused on different career sectors and schools don’t come. Sometimes it’s other pressures, sometimes it’s because the one member of staff with responsibility for careers is feckless.

Also teachers aren’t up skilled in how the world of work has changed, so they’re often giving rubbish, out of date advice. When we’ve offered to go in for 1-2-1s with students (we are all qualified careers advisors) schools give us ten minute slots with each student, only select the students with existing career ideas or just say no. Even these kind of interventions aren’t super useful without a bigger infrastructure of careers support, including skills assessment, reflective thinking etc.

My DH works for a multinational FTSE 100 company which does schools outreach in its local area. In non Covid times they invite careers advisors in to explain the vast array of roles they have and skills they need. They find it quite eye opening.

I'm a school governor so know how stretched and under-resourced our teachers are, but they're also often very young - not much older than the students they teach. Schools will send young, keen teachers on CPD to get careers qualifications, but then they move on and even those minimum basic skills are lost. Career education really needs to be organised at hub level so that it can be of higher quality and rolled out evenly across schools. Perhaps it's already possible to buy into such a service, but our school wouldn't have the spare cash.

It's no wonder many young people end up doing something not a million miles from what their parents do - it's often the only thing they know much about.

Something else I think should be covered by Careers Advice ... supply and demand in the job market, and why it might be sometimes naive to think you can just "do what you enjoy" and expect to "be whatever you want to be". For example, if we train far more potential journalists and fitness instructors than there are jobs in those areas then many will be disappointed and those that do get jobs will end up with lower wages because it's an employer's market. Careers advisors need to be telling students about which skills are highest in demand, and explain how skills shortages can lead to wage inflation. Then young people can make decisions with little more knowledge of how they might affect their future.

Have a look a the careers and enterprise company whose remit is to improve careers education in schools and fe.

They could also explain about trade unions, and how they influence wages and employment conditions.