Appeals for secondary school place

[mummakes]

My daughter is currently in Year 7, and we'd like to move schools. I have sent in my appeal letter, but the hearing is not till early June.

I can still add information to my appeal, I could certainly do with advice.

When applying for year 7 our daughter was (very luckily) offered two states school music scholarship places. She is gifted musically. We took the one closest to our home, both schools had excellent reputations. The one we chose was probably seen as the more "go-to" school.

We've since been fairly disturbed by her present school. They push politics, activism and social justice issues to a disturbing extent. Our daughter, normally bubbly and outspoken, has definitely felt silenced in many ways. They often presented with quite disturbing materials with no context or cushioning eg. sexual violence issues after Sarah Everard etc. Often what she hears at school is inappropriate for an 11 year old, and for various reasons she finds it too much. She often says she "zones out" and reports "switching off" because there is often such a barrage of disturbing information from school.

Just as disappointing has been the distinct lack of music provision at her present school. Despite going though a demanding process to get in - they do pretty much nothing musically. I understand there has been a lockdown, but a plethora of musical establishment have managed to keep things going for kids. Her school haven't even kept up theory club, and this quite simply keeping her back. Another music-kid mum at the present school has confirmed the music provision in this school is actually poor (with or without lockdown), and this woman will take her daughter out of the school for Music A'level, as no one has achieved an 'A in music A'levels in the last 4 years. The school we want to go to - takes its responsibility seriously with regards to political bias and really would nurture her musically. They too are a music specialism school, but in stark contrast to our present school, have kept up their music programme over lockdown, and kept up theory classes, now do face to face music lessons, concerts, orchestra etc. There is a commitment to the music scholars. This have gotten kids into Oxford with choral scholarships etc...

I was advised not to draw too heavily on politics on my appeal as this is very prevalent in some London schools/teaching unions.Rather to focus on our daughters wellbeing (which I think is verging on safeguarding). In the appeal letter we've done outlined her musical ability and achievements and why the school we want would nurture her and be a good fit.

I'm wondering how I go about proving that their burden on taking our daughter outweighs the harm she experiences. Do I just focus on her wellbeing and music? Can I counterbalance their "no room at the inn" argument?

We are a low income family and our daughter is grade 7 on a string and voice - she has had much bursary support since the age of 8 (currently has 2 scholarships) - member of National Youth Choir and NCO (again bursary places). Presently we can't afford extra theory lessons, so a place at a truly musical school would mean a lot to her. In the past we've pulled her out of an orchestra club in the past because of costs... heartbreaking.

I haven't documented all her bursaries nor how great the school we want is musically - should I add this to the appeal? Would this help prove our case?

I would really appreciate some honest advice from people with experience.

You should focus on why your daughter going to a particular school would benefit that school.
You need to make the school wants to have her because it works benefit them.

Admittedly it was a few years ago but when I was a school governor, we reviewed the appeals.

I hate this idea that appellants shouldn't talk about a certain thing or slag off their current school - if that’s your reason for appeal be honest!

You may hate it, but it is good advice. You absolutely should not slag off your child's current school. You are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've got. The only situation in which you should talk negatively about the current school is if there are serious safeguarding concerns, e.g. the school failing to act on bullying. Remember that, although the appeal panel is independent from the school you are appealing for, it is possible that one of them will be linked to the school your child has got.

I would also be very careful about arguments around politics. It is an area where members of the appeal panel may agree with the school's approach.

Admittedly it was a few years ago but when I was a school governor, we reviewed the appeals

For at least the last 14 years the governing body has been required to oppose all appeals. During that time, the governing body has also been required to admit children only when there are vacancies and only in line with the school's published admission criteria. I know some schools used to breach the Admissions Code by doing things like this, but it should not happen.

@mummakes - It sounds like you have a decent case around the music provision at the appeal school which is better than that currently on offer at the school she is attending. Talking about your daughter's wellbeing will also help. Those things may well be enough to overcome the school's argument that they can't cope with an additional pupil. You should certainly talk about all the things the appeal school offers musically that are missing from her current school. Without knowing about the bursaries and what they signify I'm not going to comment on whether you should include them.

You will receive the school's case to refuse admission before the hearing. If you tell us what it says, you will get advice on how to deal with it in the hearing.

@prh47bridge With all the criticism against the school in the appeal I have framed it around my child's wellbeing/safeguarding. I've said that they bring up quite disturbing subject matter: sexual violence towards women or violent protest or even defund the police without cushioning it with a wider conversation in PHSE. They create a very scary world view. I think many kids find this empowering, but not mine. I make it very clear I know that they school is very well meaning (and I think this is true). However, I think my child needs to rebuild trust in the world. For her 11 years she has seen a bit too much. We are low income and our neighbourhood has been marred by gang stabbings (I'm talking 3 stabbing recently within 200 meters of our flat) She has seen crime scenes, vigils, families in tears etc. It's a lot to take on. Just over a year ago we also went through the family court last year: My estranged father wanted more visiting rights - which was not granted - but we had to bring her to the last hearing. I think she needs to feel the adults are sane and calm and the world can be good. Which despite everything I believe, but she doesn't get this from school. For her defund the Police would be a world with no safety net. Our local booby does wonders with the local kids. Boxing club, knows the gang members, talks to them - pretty fearless guy, etc.

This was how I framed the politics in the school, and I think it is an honest account. I don't think I can retract it. I wrote it in mind that I should not mention politics, but also felt I has to give the reason as to what she finds it tough there and why. She does not go home to a leafy suburban street, like most kids.

With the music – the bursaries are important because they are all awarded because we are low income. I think it shows that we could not necessarily give her a musical education without the help of a school with a good music specialism. We specifically sought out this for her. But in the appeal I only spoke about these things. I didn't document it. Should I do this? and explain the bursaries were given to us because we are low income. I can certainly provide documentation of this. We are not on benefits, but generally considered low enough income to always qualify for bursary placed. (usually under 30,000 in London means you qualify - music is VERY costly for us).

I also outlined our child is academic in the appeal, and gave her last school report (no sats due to lockdown) and evidence she has gotten into G&T in NewYork (though she was 4!). I was advised this can help although it shouldn't.

The letter back from the school we want seemed to me sympathetic toward us - though it could just be that they were reiterating our case at the start of the letter. It is open to being interpreted as sympathetic. They said things like our daughter lives in an area with "gang warfare". She has "developed obvious coping mechanism", and that we had had almost no music enrichment in our present school "in stark contrast to" to what they offer.

The rest of the letter was that they cannot take more kids. They only have 26 per class. they said some classrooms were 48m2 - which is there maximum capacity for 26 children.

I got the impression the rest of the response was quite standard.

I know of one case who got in on appeal to this school. Not sure when that was.

I would be very cautious about highlighting what is , after all, part of pshce as causing her undue anxiety, especially given context of your recent post. Focus on what the appeal school can offer in terms of music ( although I wonder if the current school is offering its full musical opportunities this year and if other school has actually been any better) and subject support such as cocurricular. Academic prowess from aged 4 seems a stretch!

I was advised not to draw too heavily on politics on my appeal as this is very prevalent in some London schools/teaching unions

Teaching unions don’t write school curricula. Unless you’re sending your daughter to a union HQ rather than a school?

I understand your anxiety about the current school's approach and the effect on your daughter but, even as phrased, I wouldn't personally include your first paragraph as it stands in an appeal case. Schools are required to teach pupils about things such as sexual violence towards women, for example. They should do so sensitively and clearly. Your daughter should hear about this in any school. Some schools may approach these subjects a little more sensitively than others but that is very difficult to quantify and may depend on the individual teacher rather than the school. I would remove all mention of the specific things being discussed completely - the panel may well take the view that your daughter will hear about those subjects in any school. If, however, you can evidence that the appeal school has better pastoral care to help her with the things with which she struggles, for example, you can raise that.

My view is that the music point is much stronger, as well as being less controversial. I would lead with that.

I wouldn't go into all the ins and outs of your income, but I would certainly tell the panel that you can't afford a musical education for your daughter on your own. You need the help of a school that provides plenty of support for those with an aptitude for music along with bursaries to allow you to access other activities.

I would strongly disagree with whoever advised you to talk about your daughter being academic. That can easily come across as saying she is too clever for her current school, or that she needs a good school because she is clever. An appeal panel may well think that a child that is truly G&T will flourish at any school. I would, however, look carefully at other things the appeal school offers beyond music that aren't available at her current school and that will appeal to your daughter's academic nature and/or help her to do well in subjects that interest her or where she has an aptitude. That will all help.

Without seeing the school's case in full it is difficult to comment but I wouldn't expect them to reiterate your case. It sounds like it might be a bit of a nudge and a wink to the appeal panel that, although they are required to oppose your appeal, they would really quite like the appeal to succeed. Even if it is, that doesn't guarantee the appeal panel will take the hint, I'm afraid, but it certainly doesn't do any harm to your case.

Thanks so much for all the advice here. I think I'll add another note and emphasise the music and send evidence.

Very useful. Wish I had consulted before the initial letter. I have a much clearer understanding of the process now.

If there is any advice on the actual hearing day and how to prepare what to say that would also be of great use.

Thanks again.

I am not advising people to be false, and I am certainly not advising anyone to manipulate the truth. Advising them not to slag off the child's current school is not in any way telling them to manipulate the truth. It is advising them to concentrate on why they want the appeal school rather than why they don't want the school they've got. It is advising them on how to present their case so that they have the best possible chance of success. It is advising them to give the appeal panel a reason to admit their child to the appeal school.

Sometimes complaining about the school you've got is appropriate. If, for example, your child is being bullied and the school isn't taking effective action to stop it. But in general, it is not the way to go. The panel knows you don't want the school you've got otherwise you wouldn't be there. But one of more members of the panel may be connected to the school you've got, so slagging it off won't go down well with them.

To take a simple example, talking about the appeal school's pastoral care and how it is better than that available at the current school is entirely appropriate. That is not slagging off the current school, saying how awful it is, nor is it in any way manipulating the truth or being false. It is highlighting why your child needs the appeal school.

I am not the only person on here who gives this advice. There are a number of regular appeal panellists who say the same.

I really have appreciated all advice on here.

I think I can't retract what I've said about the school now. I did try and tone it down because much of what I dislike about the school is what I would call teaching the kids activism. They teach in a very biased way (and often replace learning with teaching ideology). I do believe it is well meaning, but there is a very toxic atmosphere in the school. I met a teacher (not from our school) this weekend and when I mentioned they were teaching the kids activism in our school (meaning a politically biased one track viewpoint) she literally could see nothing wrong with it. So I do get the distinct feeling many in the teaching world feel this is simply imbuing the kids with a certain morality. I think it speaks to a real denigration of what education and critical thinking is. – It is what it is, and I don't think I can take on the whole system, I can just do what I think is right for my child and will make her happy.

So my feeling is that I won't really get heard on this point. I was advised to steer clear of politics, but my personal opinion was that it really is a problem for my child, and she has lost her spark because the most innocuous things become "wrong-think" within the school, and the most toxic things become normalised. Anti-white jokes are very normal. I'm not sure if anyone would believe or understand this.(I did not mention this in the appeal). I'm mixed race, my child looks very white and much of what she encounters is very similar to the low level racism I grew up with. But I think in this case it is endorsed by the school (I had that when I was very little, and it's pretty horrible). If it were to escalate (which it has in some year groups - horrible graffiti on wall etc) I don't know who the kids would turn to. The school has tied itself in knots on what is/isn't acceptable – If she was super happy obviously I wouldn't want to get my child out, so I felt I had to say something. So I have outlined the problem and tried to keep a consolatory/diplomatic tone - but I think it is clear that is has a very detrimental effect on my child. I suspect many children find the school's viewpoint confusing and wrong. I'm sure others find the teaching empowering. Not my child.

Moreover we have problems in the real world, and could do without the toxic microcosm that the school has created for itself and my child. I just want to move on and let my child get a proper education and get the music enrichment she deserves having worked so hard to get a scholarship.

So, the music is also not made up. We specifically tried for state schools with music specialisms. I have been very disappointed with the music at her present school and it is not just lockdown and another mum on MN has confirmed it is pretty dire where we are and my daughter has been throughly uninspired by her music teachers as were we at parents evening. The school we want claims to want to create a music department to rival the best private schools. In truth we probably should have taken it in the first place. I think I made an assumption that all state schools with music aptitude tests would take music very seriously and this is not the case.

I hear you both and I think my plan is to take on board what you have said, but I believe it is very important to be honest (and I think you both also think that) because I think I won't be able to fight a case that I don't feel to be true very well. However I do think the music is a genuine issue for us, and it is worth pushing that point.

I'm also pretty desperate to get my daughter out of what I see as an environment which will soon implode.

Thank you. I'm really grateful for all advice.

I had some question about PAN - the appeal is this Friday and I'm just looking in detail at the argument the school makes on capacity.

I was wondering if these are worth mentioning:

1. Admissions told me that the school is at PAN presently - however on the census data sent to me by admissions from October (for the last 4 years) it shows the school consistently under PAN, though just by a few pupils (3 in the last census). Am I splitting hairs here? Does this bare any significance? After all, they could have not been at PAN in October, but be at PAN now, but they do seem consistently under PAN. It is significant to the appeal as it undermines their argument of them going over capacity in areas used by all pupils like the dining hall and health and safely they specifically mention the PAN number all of years 7-11.

Or is the fact of the matter they are at PAN now and that is all that matters?

1. Along the same argumentation lines the schools capacity is for 890 pupils but according to You.Gov they currently have 871 (this is including the 6th form). As I understand the 6th form is in a different building, but I assume the whole school have assemblies etc. Can I use this as an argument for capacity?

1. Also the school has small class sizes (26) and states in the appeal the smallest classrooms for group lessons are 48m2 and that this is accordance with government guidelines. They have attached a graph, and from what I can see on this graph 48 m2 would be the minimum size for around 29 pupils. Again - am I splitting hairs or is this a point I could make?

1. Lastly, I have already handed in the appeal - which has a fair few attachments (with evidence to substantiate what I am was saying). After this I added a note on my daughter's musical ability and why she would be a good fit as they are a music specialism school (again lots of evidence of that). Then a short note on evidencing they had been over PAN twice (with evidence - though one of these times was just for two weeks). I also argued this has not prejudiced the children as they have consistently performed very well level at GCSE (with evidence). Most of the evidence had the relevant details highlighted for clarity and save them wading through a whole document.

If I send in this further evidence tomorrow of what I have mentioned above - will I just come across as annoying and pedantic and petty or are these valid points worth mentioning?

The clerk said I can give additional evidence up until the last day, although if I gave a lot on the day it may not be read. On other threads I've read it must be submitted 5 days prior to the appeal.

Would appreciate any advice

@Wearywithteens

Thanks so much for advice. I've really appreciated what you've said on here.

And if I am going to bring up these points surely I need to then submit census data. If I do submit it, then I also need to say why I'm submitting it, ie, show that they are almost always under PAN.

Likewise, I guess I need to send the info showing they are under capacity for the whole school by 19 student according to You. Gov.

Lastly with the class sizes should I just ask on the day at Stage 1? They submitted this data themselves - but I drew a line through it, and when you follow the line it looks to me like the minimum capacity for 48 m2 is 29/30 pupils, normally I would just ask, but the hearing will be over zoom and the graph may be hard to grasp as the graph is pretty unclear. On the other hand if I ask now I think the school will have more time to work out a reason why this is like this. Or does that not come into it. Will they be very prepared with an answer any which way. I'm probably not the first to bring this up.

Noted - about being pushy - I don't think I will come across like that in person, but I do think the reams of paperwork that I seem to be sending in will give that impression... (and I'll be deemed pushy before I start) or do some cases just have lots of evidence?

You wouldn't know what the guidelines are for class capacity is – does 48m2 only allow for 26 students? It feels more like the bottom end of a class capacity guideline. 48m2 is a fair size in my estimation. though maybe not when it's full of desks.

Thanks so much again.

@Wearywithteens
Thank so much. All very clear. Great advice and I really appreciate it.

I thought I should let you know I didn't get the appeal.

I don't know what to say. I thought I had a strong case. My daughter is very musical, it's a music specialism school, but in the decision letter it felt like this was in some way trivialised, and not seen as a need. The issues around safeguarding were totally ignored.

The chair opened by saying she couldn't judge my daughters musical ability - I didn't think this was a judgement call it was evidenced, as was the fact this was a music specialism school we were appealing to.

There was a bit of joking about how much material I had sent. That might be true, but in the main it was just evidence with one or two lines high-lighted to read.

There was also a strange reference to me not liking the way BLM was delt with within the school. I hadn't even mentioned BLM. I had in passing mentioned the school just throw big ideas very serious subject matters like Defund the Police around without any wider context. We live in a pretty violent neighbourhood and being with the police is to be without a safety net. That was all I really said on that. Nothing on BLM. I think the gang kids need the police the most, some of them are just about teenagers. They are lost.

I have to say I felt pretty misunderstood by the panel.

I may be allowed to do another appeal straight away for year 8.

From what I have gleaned from the clerk this LA has very few appeals, and mostly the only ones that get through are on grounds on deep compassion. A death, terminal cancer in the family.

I feel I am seen as far too middle classed. The truth is we are low income and I really think my daughter won't develop as much as she should without a bit more help musically. Most kids in the music world come from affluent families and those kids get a lot of support.

Pretty sad for us.

But thank you for all the advice I had here, it really helped me, and generally gave me a lot of support.